When to Ask for a Raise

 Raises and the conversations around raises can be uncomfortable and challenging for both parties involved. That is why Dr. Kuba and Bethany tackle the precursor to raise requests in this episode. They start by dialoguing an important question, “When should I ask for a raise?” Dr. Kuba draws on recent experience with a colleague who had an employee ask for a raise. The raise request took her colleague by surprise. Bethany weighs in on the situation, and then they discuss what qualifications should be considered when giving a raise. This is definitely an episode for all dental professionals!

Previous Episodes Worth Considering:
 When Employees Feel Entitled
Blindsided by a Raise Request 

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Transcript

are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real Dental drama if so then
0:09
you've come to the right place join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr Reena Kuba as
0:15
we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while
0:20
managing Dental drama let's get started okay I have a fun one for you
0:28
here okay um I want to know what your thoughts are
0:35
um and maybe we can dialogue this from the practice owner standpoint and then
0:40
also from an employee standpoint okay okay um but when is it appropriate to
0:46
ask for a raise okay so do we want to talk about
0:52
it from the employer side first or yes cuz I'm going to tell you why I'm
0:57
bringing this up okay um and so I I know the uh the doc who who asked me about
1:06
this is a listener so in order to make sure I protect her privacy and whatever
1:11
so I might kind of dance around a little bit here but bottom line she had uh an
1:20
employee that um was um applying to
1:25
dental school okay and so while they're waiting like they took their dat another waiting to start uh their applications
1:32
for dental school this person um and maybe even had a couple of college classes left I I feel like that was me
1:39
too actually and then I had you know I was like well if I'm getting into this field let me look into being an
1:44
assistant back then I didn't have to do anything right like I could go to an office and say hey can you train me um
1:51
and so I think that's what this person did like somebody a colleague of my
1:56
colleague said hey you know I've got this person brand new a she's applying to dental school and um so she she wants
2:03
to just experience what it's like yeah for a short period short period of time
2:09
so this this colleague of mine um said okay sure and um hired this person on as
2:17
a sterile Tech and I guess that's the the colleague who reached out to her was
2:22
like well she's she's observed in my office and she helped us with sterile you know a couple of days on a busy day
2:28
like we would just say throwing some gloves take this trayback so not real experience but just some like knew what
2:36
instruments were and knew how to turn turn around room and so this colleague of mine was like okay well you know I'm
2:43
going to pay pay you like a sterile tech let's assumed the amount was 10 bucks an hour yeah and um so I think this um
2:52
candidate this you know pre pred Dental was um like yeah I'm going to work
2:57
parttime so that I can kind of like the whole goal was just to say well as I'm getting ready for dental school yeah if
3:04
I can observe procedures and if I can help in turning around rooms like yeah
3:10
they have their RDA but they don't really have any skill set per se gotcha um so it was more just like can I be in
3:17
the environment and listen to the conversations of treatment planning and listen to how you know and and turn
3:22
around rooms and do whatever so this colleague hires her 10 bucks an hour the candidate is Happy enough with that
3:28
because the candidate's goal was was to gain experience so my colleague calls me and
3:34
she's like well it's been six months and um the candidate came and said well now
3:39
I've learned how to I know all the instruments I can set up a room for op I
3:45
can uh take x-rays so you know can I get a raise cuz
3:51
I'm doing a lot more in your practice mhm so I know what my thought was but I
3:58
want to know what your thought is so my my thought is
4:06
no no no you can't have a raise so this is me strictly from a consultant
4:13
standpoint by the way um and again being a consultant I do
4:18
feel like I'm in that in between all the time I'm constantly advocating for my clients of course but to me part of
4:24
advocating for my clients is also advocating for the team members that goes hand inand they are mutually connected
4:30
however when I'm thinking about this scenario from a Consulting standpoint I am looking at a client of mine a dentist
4:37
practice owner that has taken a risk to hire a
4:45
shortterm employee now short from a Consulting standpoint a shortterm
4:51
employee is challenging on multiple levels so it's challenging in that we
4:58
don't want to have to invest a ton of time and energy because training any team you talk to a team that's
5:06
constantly training somebody new is a tired team they're very tired they get they get worn out in the training
5:12
process it's just a lot there's a lot of teaching and coaching and correcting and I mean even we we only let um dental
5:20
pediatric residents come observe in our office and I'll let um there's a preceptor program that I remember as a
5:27
dental student was vital to me and so I've paid it forward and so every year they contact me can we send a student
5:33
who's interested in being a pediatric dentist to your office and we just had one over Thanksgiving break and it was
5:40
exhausting and he wasn't even doing anything he was just shadowing us but you know he was asking questions like
5:46
wait why did why did that parent say that or why did you or we had we're going to come back and do an episode on
5:52
it we had the last day of right before Thanksgiving like the last two hours we had two very difficult patients very
5:59
defeating and then I've got this student on top of it that's like what in the world just happened why would you handle
6:06
this this way um and so for us to have those conversations just to even talk to
6:12
an observer it's EXT exhausting it's exhausting it really is and a lot of
6:18
times I could understand why a a short termer may not realize the amount of
6:25
effort and energy that's going into bringing them on board
6:30
but it's it's a very exhausting process training anybody um shortterm or longterm is exhausting so we've got that
6:37
and for a doctor to choose to make that investment for somebody that he or she
6:43
knows is going to be shortterm i i as a consultant would
6:49
recommend to that short term don't ask for anything like they're doing you a favor by giving you a job for this short
6:56
period of time so that would be number one number two
7:02
is there's only so far you can take a short-term person even if they end up
7:08
doing more so let's say it's you know 6 months before this person's applying to dental school heck even a year before
7:15
somebody's applying to denal school there's only so far that you'll be able to take this person because from a
7:22
Consulting standpoint please for the love of God do not invest all this time and energy into promoting this person up
7:30
through the ranks and now it's harder to replace that person it's somewhat easy
7:35
to replace a stero Tech but if we start moving that sterile Tech into complex
7:41
levels of assisting and now we become reliant on that short-term person to fulfill that role well then when she
7:48
does get into dental school or is ready to move on which we knew from the get-go
7:56
we knew it was going to be shortterm well now we're having to fill the complex role that we kind of moved or up
8:01
into so to me with any short-term employee my advice to my clients or to
8:09
my practice owners is don't wear your team out with this person just put them into a role that they can learn and when
8:16
there's down when they're not doing sterile they can step in and watch a procedure they can listen in at the front I still want them to get the
8:22
benefit of exposure to things but I don't want to exhaust the team for
8:27
somebody that's only going to be there for 6 months or even a here and then my other advice to people is please don't
8:34
Advance them to all these high skills that now you are riant on them for it's
8:41
okay if you're doing that in conjunction with somebody else that's still going to remain when this short-term person
8:47
leaves but often times that advancement happens because they need somebody to fulfill the role and they were like well
8:53
shoot bring up sterile Tech person and and you know she can step in and and become an RDA to me that's where I get
9:00
really nervous because I know this person is short term so for those two reason reasons alone unless your
9:08
colleague has somebody that has completely flipped roles she said screw
9:13
it I need a solid chairs side assistant and I know it's short shortterm but
9:19
she's going to be our go-to chairs side assistant for the next six months and I know it's only six months if they're
9:24
doing that very consciously moving her into a different role no knowing that
9:29
it's going to be short-term but they're they're requiring a lot more out of her then I would say okay well sure pay the
9:35
person more if if that's what you're doing okay so a couple of the things that that came up with this which is why
9:41
I wanted to bring it up with you so I don't think they are necessarily moving
9:47
into another role but because so maybe it's happened inadvertently where now this person can take X-rays and now they
9:53
can seat the patient and now they can whatever else they're needing her to do um and so she's like I'm not just a
10:00
sterile Tech I am now moved into the role of a I guess she's not helping in
10:06
major procedures but say hygiene and she's helping in hygiene so that is kind
10:12
of a ro sh me it would need to be a a a distinct new role like hey we have hired
10:19
a new sterile Tech we are moving you to chairs side assisting or to hygiene
10:26
assisting so so the argument that we got into was um but but you are doing more I I as the
10:36
owner and benefiting from you taking X-rays and my thought was well I you
10:43
you've learned on my dime you've learned on my but it the argument was it doesn't
10:48
matter because that person is now able to have a skill set that is benefiting
10:53
my office so I guess this where I is this
10:59
is where I have to switch to employee mode because I think it's hard to talk about this without switching over to that so
11:05
from an employee standpoint the only reason why that
11:11
practice owner would have to be thinking about a wage increase I would think is because the
11:18
employee asked for it so to me it begs the question and I
11:26
want to respect your clients your colleagues privacy here so from the employee you shouldn't be
11:32
asking for a race I guess is where it needs to come back to because even if you are now taking x-rays your your
11:41
whole goal it sounded like was to get the exposure and some training that you
11:46
needed to be able to be more successful in dental school and this person this practice
11:54
owner is kind enough to let you do that so yes you came in as St Tech and now
12:00
you're learning additional skills but to me if I'm the employee and I know I'm trying to prep for dental school I
12:07
should want to get all those skills as many as I can in the six months or 12 months whatever it may be I should want
12:13
to add all those things to my tool belt for my own benefit but if it's also benefiting the
12:20
practice why can't I get paid a little bit more too to me that is an irrelevant side task if your whole goal is to get
12:28
in and get experience now it would be different if you said to me hey I'm you know I've got this dental
12:37
assistant that came to me and she's ah she may be going to Dent school it's it's one of her goals it's a
12:43
longterm goal no this is a definitive short term I'm only here part-time and I
12:50
will be gone me no okay so I guess that to me that's the I guess the argument
12:57
that I was hitting up against with the not not with the colleague that that hired the person but just in general as
13:03
I was kind of talking about it to me it's that was the thing was well this person is doing more in your office
13:10
shouldn't they get an increase and and I was like no they're they're doing it for their own benefit yeah but it's
13:17
benefiting you too and I was like yeah but I you know from colleague standpoint
13:22
she's the one who took the liability on to bring you in and was okay with giving
13:28
you just part-time and shortterm so soone wasn't even just short-term it's part-time short-term
13:33
right and so I was like they've already made a lot of accommodations and you know I guess the
13:39
person is smart the RDA is smart like she's getting into dental school she's already you know she she will get into
13:45
dental school yeah um so to me the fact that she was able to pick up on x-rays
13:50
quickly or pick up on other things quickly she's a quick study yeah and so
13:55
now is it the office is getting penalized for yeah you I don't know and so I could kind of I kind of see the
14:03
point of yes it is benefiting the practice but I'm like but when you look at it as a whole thing I didn't hire you
14:10
to hire you to begin with I hired you as a favor to my colleague yeah and and made a spot for you and worked up
14:17
training you so then the then the question that came up um CU there were
14:23
there was actually the colleague and then there was another colleague that we were talking and you know it ended up being this this discussion
14:29
um was the um so at no point should this
14:36
person ask for a raise and my take was no so even at the year mark yeah no if
14:43
the plan is to leave unless they have changed their mind and said I RDA is my
14:49
calling correct that's different that's different but if this is still like you know yeah we got into dental school but
14:57
I didn't realize the start date was July July and not April right you know so I
15:02
should get paid more of those 3 months no no no the agreement was still yes the goal was you should be so that was part
15:09
of it um the other big part of it was like to me I don't think anybody should
15:16
ask for a raise in any field wherever you are earlier than a year because they say it takes two years for you to really
15:24
get to know your role and really provide uh
15:29
you know value to the place of employment and yes then you go back to well of course I provide value I show up
15:35
and I call the patients or you know I show up and I'm at Walmart and I check the patients of course I provide value
15:42
you wouldn't be able to see these you know these customers wouldn't be able to buy stuff if I wasn't there checking them out yeah but that's what you get
15:49
paid for so I don't know it got into very much all of that kind of and I was
15:54
like you know I don't think anybody like truly knows the place they're working at
16:00
for at least a year correct and I don't think it's their role nor their role yeah even
16:07
if it's more of a cut and dry roll like RDA I think this is where people get
16:13
confused a lot because they show up and day one they do certain tasks day 14
16:20
those tasks look look very similar they may be a little bit quicker at them day 30 day 60 day 90 they're doing the same
16:27
task but they're getting better at them them less questions faster and so what
16:32
they may trick themselves into believing is
16:38
that once they get to 6 months or even a year to be perfectly honest that they
16:43
have grown so much that now they're more valuable to the practice and I would
16:48
pause it and and I think it's worth our listeners to really stop and consider
16:54
this is it that you're more valuable or that you're just now earning the value
16:59
that was ascribed to you on day one that to me is most often the
17:05
the actual truth is that we we made an advance to you of yes we will hire you
17:13
on we've done as much vetting as we possibly can to think that you're going to bring some value and we're going to
17:19
give you a dollar amount that we think is commiserate with that or even a dollar amount that you've
17:25
requested and then it takes you a solid six to 12 months to even prove that you're worth that so to ask for anything
17:33
before a year I think is very premature I don't care how many new skill sets
17:39
that you've added in that period of time if you are brought on to a team you
17:45
should for that first year be adding all new kinds of tools and tips and tricks
17:50
and efficiencies to your tool belt that is the expectation which is why you received the pay that you were given and
17:58
I think a lot of employees trick themselves into thinking who they were on day
18:03
30 is commiserate with the pay and so therefore at year 300 I mean at day
18:10
365 when they feel like they're a completely different employee they feel like now they owe that they're owed more
18:18
and I just think I hope that listeners will hear me when I say this I think we've got to
18:24
change our mindset and we've got to recognize that the dollar amount that was given was actually a leap of faith
18:32
for that doctor and you need to be grateful for that and the doctor is the
18:37
one who had to Hope and catch and watch and train and guide and make sure the
18:43
the even if you came in being a TDE France winner but now you're on my track
18:50
and I need to start you on training wheels because even though you know but you don't know the ins and outs of my track and so as I'm making sure you're
18:58
not going to fall off the cliff Edge because yeah you're used to the TDE Frances things but you're not used to
19:03
mine you're going to Pitfall there you don't realize there's quick sand over there you don't realize there's a flood
19:08
coming at you there so I'm going to have to help you navigate through all that and yes you you got a gold medal which
19:14
was worth $30 an hour in your biking days fine I'll give you $30 an hour but you're doing $30 an hour with training
19:21
wheels with me for the first six months yeah and yeah you're you're you're making some strides and you're going but
19:28
it's still by the time you finished the race I'm just glad you finished it which
19:34
was the assumption that you were going to get there so I agree completely with
19:39
you now I can see where employees would be like I contribute on day one H you
19:45
wouldn't be able to see these patients without me but that's what you got paid for like you and and there was a certain
19:51
amount of training that went into this is how we do it in our office this is how I still remember one of mine that
19:57
was a offended that I wanted to schedule um intraoral photo taking with
20:05
her and she was just and I had like my seasoned people so in my mind I'm like
20:11
I'm paying a hygienist hygiene fees to stay over lunch to practice with you and
20:17
your response is I already know how to do that I don't know why you're wasting my time training and I I should have
20:24
known then that we had issues because you're a person who has such an inflated
20:30
ego right now that you can't even see that the chaining is is an investment in
20:36
you right to where I directly had to tell her honey anybody can take an intraoral on a good 8-year-old right you
20:43
come take an intraoral on the one-year-old by yourself then you are proficient in my office right so but the
20:51
fact that I even had to say that to her that she had such an inflated ego and I'm like where did you why what and and
20:58
we've had nothing but issues for two years with this person because every few months she'll get into this well I blah
21:05
blah blah and I'm like you are the one with the least amount of experience in this office you're going to go toe-to-toe with the person who's been
21:12
here for S years like how dare you yeah and she doesn't see it at
21:18
all hey listeners I have a thought for you um it is nothing new you've heard me
21:26
say it before I believe it was season 3 was one of my favorite taglines I was so pleased with myself and I figured it's
21:33
coming back it's very applicable right now um if you have not signed up as a
21:40
subscriber my thought for you is you're the problem not me we have all these
21:46
resources for you we've got the bonus episodes we've got the digest that's just phenomenal and you're hesitating
21:54
and I don't know why you don't need the help uh you're your own coach like
22:00
you're going to just take yourself to the top because you don't need any extra help or resources so if that's the case
22:06
you are the problem not me okay stop fooling around go sign
22:14
up um the other question I just remember that I was going to ask you so this was the other point of argument between me
22:20
and colleague and the other colleague that kind of stepped into the conversation the other colleague that stepped in the conversation was like
22:26
what is the harm in asking for the raise like what's the harm like
22:32
all that the initial colleague can say is no it's only been 6 months no you're a part-time no you're not getting a
22:38
raise and that's the end of that I viewed differently colleague didn't know what to think she's like I
22:44
don't I don't know like is there harm is there not harm so I will start by saying I think there is harm but I wanted to
22:51
hear what you think is there so what a it's a very logical thing to
22:57
say you know what what is the harm in the person asking but I think when we're
23:03
talking about and this is where I'll get on a little bit of my soap box to me the dental field itself is full of dental
23:12
professionals I do not care what role you have sterile Tech RDA
23:19
hygienist business office I don't care what role dentist we are a professional
23:24
field we do a job that is exceedingly important in my
23:30
book so we have to not think about the worker mentality the we're sitting in
23:38
Ikea parking lot the Ikea employee or the Ashley Furniture
23:44
whoever I don't care we can't think like an employee we have to think like a professional so what is the harm in
23:51
asking for a raise is an employee mindset it says let me see how much I
23:56
can squeeze out of this I mean might as well what's the harm in that but when we think like a professional that question
24:03
doesn't feel as appropriate appropriate because now we go no I'm a
24:10
professional and I'm a sterile Tech and I took on this role because I have a
24:17
goal of getting into dental school I have a lot to learn I am on my professional track and I'm in an office
24:24
that has thankfully accommodated my schedule and is allowing me to even go beyond sterile Tech to learn new skills
24:32
like taking X-rays and seating a patient and taking blood pressure and man those are skills that I didn't think I was
24:38
going to get but on my professional track this is valuable so when we think about it that
24:44
way and then we throw in the question well what does it hurt to ask more money that's not the that is not the track of
24:51
a professional that is a track of an employee how can I get more out of this while I'm in it and then we have set
24:58
aside the goal of let me see how many skills I can earn because I've
25:04
potentially thrown a curveball at this dentist and now this dentist is going to look at me differently because now
25:12
rather than being this young eager early in his or her track professional that I
25:19
get the benefit even though I'm making a lot of accommodations I'm working this person part-time I'm paying this person
25:26
for a position that I really didn't even need need so I'm making an investment in this person from a Time standpoint money
25:32
standpoint and I feel good about it cuz I'm helping somebody along in their professional track so it's kind of a
25:39
give back type situation and I feel good about that oh no wait a second I've
25:45
actually got an employee on my hands because he or she just asked for an extra couple dollars now I'm thinking
25:52
about this differently now I feel less good about my investment of time and energy and the accommodations that
25:58
making now I've got to look at this person as an employee not as a professional that will one day join the
26:04
ranks as a dentist alongside me that's the harm in in that and I guess to me I
26:10
didn't even think about that but you're right because to me I'm like wait a minute wait a minute I was letting you take X-rays and do all of this other
26:17
stuff for your own learning so I was I was you know facing can I can I can I
26:24
risk it here is this Mom going to go why did I have to take this x-ray three times you know am I going to deal with
26:29
that kind of situation with a parent or am I going to have a relaxed parent that's going to be like oh yes this is a young up andc Comer letter practice on
26:36
my kid you know so I've got to watch all of that and in my mind it's like yeah
26:42
I'm helping you grow and what that's turned into is okay well maybe we should
26:48
slow your growth because if you think that every new skill you have I'm going to have to pay you more for well I want
26:55
that went in my budget the whole point was to help you you grow yeah so I think
27:00
that I hadn't even thought about like now I'm like no no no no no no you're you're not going to go sit and watch op
27:06
you're not going to go help set up op no no no stay out of the front I don't want you helping anywhere in the front
27:11
because what that's going to turn into is you turning around and saying oh well now I can answer your phones and I guess from their Viewpoint they're going but
27:17
it's a help to you if I can help you an op and I can help you there but I'm like but you're not really a full-blown help
27:24
because you're not going to stick around a long time I'm not going to give you the challenging cases because that's going to mean like if normally yes you
27:31
can take X-rays you can take x-rays on the good eight-year-old but I'm not going to throw you into the three-year-old it's going to give up I'm
27:36
going to pull my seasoned person to do that now maybe I might have the seasoned person help you so you can start getting
27:41
some practice I'm not doing that anymore because now I'm paying two of you to do the job yours was supposed to be a
27:48
growth mindset now you've turned it into a dollar amount employee mindset I know
27:54
exactly you you've been able to phrase that in a way I wasn't able to reconcile in my mind I think for me where I took
27:59
that was okay but if this person like part of me if I was colleague now who knows what colleague is thinking she may
28:06
never want an associate or whatever but to me I'm thinking if I had let that person in my office going hm they get to
28:13
see my office they get to know my office they get to know me they get to know the culture they get to see some procedures
28:19
and see how we handle it they'll go see whatever they see in dental school and when they come out maybe I'll be ready
28:24
for an associate maybe I'll be ready to retire and this is a person who because we've worked alongside each other and we
28:30
liked things about each other maybe this could be and I'm like but if that now I
28:38
feel squeezed yeah that's the word you're saying I feel squeezed and to me I'm like oh that's your mindset me me me
28:45
me me what can I get out of this so if you come on as an associate what are you going to demand at that point yeah so to
28:52
me there is harm and that's the way I was arguing that there's harm and the other colleague that stepped in was like
28:57
but there's no harm if you like don't want to give him a raise don't give them a raise and move on and I'm like but the
29:03
the color of that person has changed for me the situation Shi Paradigm Shift yeah yes and my mind has changed now so I
29:10
guess that's for this one specific example but I guess to me to make it more uh Universal for our audience to
29:18
the basic question of like when should you ask for a raise so I think we've talked about here already maybe at the
29:25
year mark any sooner is you know ill advised ill advised I think
29:32
remembering that whatever you ask for at the beginning you're probably only starting to earn that at the year mark
29:38
yeah I think so this was the other question I was going to tie in with this and then we can get back to again if you have any other broader advice to that
29:45
situation but um it made me think of a colleague of mine and I hadn't thought about this in Forever Until this
29:52
conversation came up and he has said that if somebody comes to him and asks
29:57
for a raise he will tell the person he will say okay you're asking for a
30:03
compensation review just so you know like your compensation could go up or
30:09
down so I'm going to start asking questions to see like do you show up on time are you a pain in the butt with
30:15
this do you whine about that does somebody always have to come back and make your trace for you are you the one
30:21
that is constantly like oh forgot the spatula forgot the burs forgot like so
30:27
I'm going to start digging and asking all those questions so your pay could go up or down yes and just so you know all
30:34
the people in my office that are the highest paid or the people that have been here the longest none of them have ever asked for a raise why because I see
30:41
their value and I give them the raise before they have to ask for it so if you are confident that you are ready for
30:49
this compensation review um and he has said which blows my mind he's like so what that does for you
30:54
because in my mind I'm like but then you're going to lose the employee and before I could even say that he's like
31:00
you you go into that going is this an employee you even want because one they're trying to ask for something and
31:06
say I'm valuable I'm valuable which we're good about noticing their value ahead of time now again if maybe if
31:12
you're a dog who you're like I'm not giving a raise until somebody asks for it then maybe that's another problem unto itself advised as well so that's
31:18
advised right so to me I start going okay who would stick around if they if
31:24
you I was like have you and he's like I've had one person stick around around after and he's like we lowered her pay
31:29
by $2 an hour yeah but at least it gave her a sense of knowing like this is what I need to do to step up to step up which
31:37
is just mindboggling to me that anybody would stick around but he's like if you were going to go through this process
31:42
and see that you truly have undervalued this person hopefully that's a lesson to you to go you're lucky that this person
31:48
ask before they just walked away and you were none the wiser he goes but if you
31:54
discovered that this person he's like don't you want them out of your prce cuz they're overpaid for for what they're
32:00
doing and they want more right so I just thought that was uh very um you know I I
32:08
wanted to say that to this colleague unfortunately the conversation was already over but I was like hey maybe that's what you should do with this
32:13
person yeah um is say hey okay well we can look at that but are you sure you're
32:19
ready for it to go up or down yeah cuz you could end up at 11: or you could end up at 8: yeah so you want to go through
32:25
this process um which I just thought was mind I don't know that I could ever do that that was so
32:31
like you know brilliant to me brilliant but I um if you could speak to yes from
32:38
the doctor standpoint there and also for I don't I mean are there times that it is appropriate for an employee to ask
32:44
for a raise yes I do think there are times that it's appropriate now first of all like we just mentioned I think it's
32:51
very ill advised for there not to be some type of annual compensation review
32:57
because I don't don't like for employees to be in the place where they feel like they have to ask because number one
33:03
that's highly uncomfortable but number two it also forces them to think about
33:09
compensation a whole lot more because they're trying to figure out is now the time should I wait another month what
33:15
about they're constantly thinking about it because it's this unknown mile marker that they've got to figure out and I
33:22
just don't I don't think that's a strategy I would think you would start then start going asking around and going
33:27
what do you get paid what do you get paid well what do you have to do what are your hours so it's like it's like by not knowing and for the doc to just be
33:34
like I'm not going to give it until they ask they may be asking around and they may like leave yes and you never had the
33:42
opportunity exactly and a lot of people will leave before asking for a raise
33:48
they would rather switch jobs than to go through the discomfort of having to ask for a raise so I just think it's it's
33:55
not a smart smart strategy to have so docs annually you need to review
34:00
compensation that does not mean mean annually raise let me make that really clear I'm not saying every year somebody
34:07
needs a raise that is not my recommendation you just need to know the employee needs to know they have a time and a place every year to review
34:13
compensation which uh can I give a spoiler alert here in the digest this month we're going to have um tips on how
34:20
to do the compensation review yes you you need these tips you need to know how to do a compensation review so sign up
34:27
subscrib for that um so from an employee standpoint though I do want to speak to that
34:33
because ideally your doctor has a compensation review in place so you don't have to worry about
34:39
it you can wait if your doctor has a compensation policy in place that he or
34:46
she sticks to please don't ask before that is put in place for a reason and so
34:51
if there's an annual review you can wait I don't care care what new role you've assumed what new task you've taken on
34:59
whatever the case may be you can wait until that compensation review so if your practice has something like that in
35:05
place I would highly advise you not to ask for anything outside of that time now if your office does not have
35:12
something in place to me what solicits AR raay is new role or new job duties within
35:22
your current role so this is going to sound harsh but to
35:29
me value does not come from longevity in
35:34
a practice so the longer you stay if you're doing the same role and you're
35:39
providing the same benefit to the practice you should make the same thing year after year after year that is my
35:48
perspective and that may sound harsh but Bob at Ikea I can guarantee you if he
35:54
stays in his exact same role doing his exact same thing my guess that is that he would make a marginal difference
36:01
between day one and year 10 if Bob is doing the exact same thing DL has done
36:07
this very wrong and they've rewarded longevity so Susie does the exact same role every year and does it the same way
36:13
and somehow she makes $10 more 10 years from now I I think that's wrong so
36:19
unless you are providing more value to the practice in either becoming way more
36:25
efficient at your role which has then enabled you to do more things or you've completely changed roles in the practice
36:33
you went from Sally the receptionist to Sally the treatment plan coordinator and
36:38
case closer okay I that's a higher skill set I get that and in that case as long as
36:45
you're doing a good job in that role you should earn more now this is where I
36:51
need to say something too just because you took on the new role does not mean that that should immediately come with a
36:56
pay raise you need to prove yourself in that role before you ask for any compensation for
37:02
it so I understand that you're like oh but I went from receptionist to treatment
37:09
plan coordinator yes but know that there's at least 3 to six maybe even 12
37:15
months of investment that that doctor is them putting into you which has value
37:22
and you need to absorb all that training and then when you're a really good treatment plan coordinator then you can ask for an increase but I do not like
37:29
the mindset of I get feel like every office you know it's it's just expected you're about to go into this role and
37:35
here's your raise for going into this role and you haven't even proven yourself yeah you Haven even proven if you've turned around and made that value
37:42
back for the practice that's right yep so th that would be my advice first of all if there's a plan in place don't ask
37:49
for a raise and then the only thing that s should solicit a raise request is you are literally bringing more value to the
37:56
practice either by what you're doing or um by doing more of what you're doing
38:03
okay so that that's what I was gonna ask like when we went from a four person front Des to a two person that warrants
38:10
potentially a raise because now two are doing the job of four correct okay um assuming they are doing the job of four
38:17
assuming that they're doing the job that the four used to do yes okay and then do you have advice for like you said if the
38:25
practice has in place when they do their review so if you don't have that can you
38:31
talk to doctors who like the benefits of that maybe or how to establish that or what what do you do because again I I
38:37
think I went as backwards into mind it's not like I walked in going for me you helped do that um and we've we've you
38:45
know over the last six seven years we've kind of had that and I think we do have the benefit of longevity of employees
38:51
such that when somebody new starts the others will say you don't need to ask they they are fair about giving you the
38:57
raises we don't have to ask they go ahead and give it they watch out for this so if you don't have that
39:02
builtin you know culture what how do you establish that I guess is the question
39:08
you've got to start somewhere you've got to start somewhere so to me it's just a matter of deciding okay it's been
39:14
advised that I need to review this on an annual basis so when am I doing that picking a time that makes sense for you
39:21
um it doesn't have to fall at a certain time of the year based on what we recommend you and I get together with
39:28
your team every February the reason that we picked February is because we can look back by that point at the previous
39:35
year the entire year so this February of 2025 we will be able to go back and look
39:40
at all the numbers of that person's pay for 2024 so it's a very all the numbers are
39:45
done by your CPA and we've got everything prepared we have a month essentially to get it prepared by the
39:52
time we sit down with them it doesn't have to be February it can be August every year CU August is a slow month for
39:57
you and then your year for that employee would just run um August to July so whatever your year
40:06
mark is just make sure you're reviewing the previous 12 months so pick a time
40:12
that that makes sense and just schedule it and prepare for it again in the um in
40:19
the digest this month we've got a very particular way of preparing for compensation reviews you need to have a
40:25
strategy for it you can't just sit down and be like okay Betty so you make 20 bucks an hour how do you feel about that
40:33
are you wanting to make more I mean it's got to be like what are you what's the data that you're bringing to that
40:38
meeting to show Betty what she makes reminding her of all the benefits talking about her goals does she want to
40:45
make more okay let's figure out a path where you could make more this is where you could really bring more value to the
40:51
team so I can see a doctor going what the hell I'm supposed to bring up how you make more I don't want to pay you
40:58
more so I think where that's worked out in our practice though has been like so
41:03
I think the assumption is everybody wants to make more but by you asking
41:08
that what you're really asking is what else can you do are you a onetick pony in this practice and if it comes out
41:15
that that is then maybe the the person can kind of know their place I guess a little bit cuz we've got one that is
41:22
more or less or this was a few years ago but she was more or less a onetick pony
41:27
um and you know when she came in wanting more it was like okay well one thing you could do is are you willing to learn
41:34
this this or this oh you're not okay so we're going to stick to the same things you've done so just that just makes it
41:40
really clear it's I'm not picking on you it's very objective that you're willing to not pick up anything additional
41:46
you're comfortable in your comfort zone which means you should be comfortable with your pay the second thing is that
41:52
comes out a lot of times is well when we track everybody else's hours over the
41:57
last year everybody made around 1,600 hours like worked 1600 hours you were
42:03
showing as you worked 1250 last year hm so there's your there was the work
42:09
opportunity it's not like we only had you know 1250 hours available to you
42:15
everybody else was able to get in the, 1600 1650 hours so you're not a
42:20
part-time employee oh you were just absent a lot okay so if you just show up to work more you you'll make more so I
42:28
don't want anybody to get scared off of that question because I think the gut reaction is what the hell I'm going to
42:33
ask you want to make more first of all of course you want to make more but second of all is that like a tea up for me to say I'm paying you more and then I
42:40
really don't and so not I've tricked you like all that it's it's actually a a pretty strategic question it really is
42:47
it really is and it's it's yielded some really good conversations for us over the years with employees that we've had
42:53
because we've either been able to direct them into okay if you're staying in your exact same role this is how you make
42:58
more and often times that is working more which thankfully is available to them um or you may not know that Betty
43:06
wants to grow in her role she seems perfectly content being the receptionist
43:11
and you're like oh I didn't realize that you wanted to grow financially now that I know that what are some things that
43:18
you're interested in learning in the practice and we can see what we can do well I've always wanted to learn
43:23
Insurance Betty I never knew that like that's fantastic so can lead to conversations that are productive for
43:29
the practice and ultimately for the employee but it also ties compensation
43:34
to Performance which I think is critical it's one of the benefits of asking that
43:40
question are you satisfied in your role and with your compensation or are you wanting to grow in both your role and
43:47
your compensation they are intricately connected and so it sets a really good environment for if I want to earn more I
43:54
have to learn more in the practice and you may risk losing somebody cuz I
43:59
think that's what happened with this employee she wanted to make more but even when we pointed out the hours that
44:05
she didn't work she still didn't pick up more hours she did nothing to change that we did try to train her to do other
44:12
things maybe it was insurance or something and she was like I'm not comfortable doing this so rather than
44:18
her recognizing in herself and going oh well then I am getting paid fairly she quit yeah but then she came
44:26
back back MH a year later because she was like oh so then once she saw what
44:32
else was available like yeah you're really good at that one role and it is
44:37
an important role but everybody else in the office is either working more or
44:43
they are learning other skill sets and you've gotten very comfortable where you are but why but then then you're asking
44:50
basically for me to raise you just cuz you've been here and that's where you get that longevity piece and I'm like I can't do that cuz I'm not doing that
44:55
with anybody else in the practice no um last question I have for you is then for the docs do you have docs that are like
45:03
I'm not giving array unless they ask no not any current clients that
45:09
would say that it's just the wrong mindset and I I am really blessed to
45:14
work with really awesome people and to me a mindset like that um shows and this
45:20
is going to sound harsh a mindset like that shows that you do not value your team and thankfully I work with great
45:28
people now that would not ever say that and so um to me if you're saying that
45:34
you you are on a slippery slope of having chronic turnover in your practice
45:39
not being able to accelerate your practice where you want it to go because
45:44
you don't value the people that are helping you get there so I just well that's the conversation that came up
45:50
with my colleague and this other was I'm like what what what you're what this person's asking for is basic very
45:58
transactional thing I learned how to do this I should get paid more but what you've missed is the relationship and
46:04
the investment that has and the opportunity that has been given to you to come into the practice Yeah but you
46:10
know they're helping you with your sterilization they're helping you set up rooms they're helping you you know file
46:18
claims like to scan them in they're helping you with all of the stuff so they are benefiting your office don't you seem like the selfish one that
46:24
you're just taking advantage of this person no I wouldn't have even had this person
46:31
here because of the the all the accommodations being made for somebody who's not going to stick around and how
46:37
exhausting it is to train to me that was a relational thing that I'm investing
46:42
and paying forward for you for your growth to be a successful dentist one
46:47
day to be able to see and I'm very proud that you are trying to see what all it takes to run a practice and be you know
46:55
see see beyond just the technical dentistry and you've made it very
47:00
transactional here and so I think that's the same thing I would say to a doc that's like I'm not giving a raise
47:05
unless they ask for it you're you're you're making it feel very devalued and you're making it feel very transactional
47:11
like what you bring okay fine I'll give you a dollar more but only because you asked like it's not a good feel it's not
47:19
it's not and it's worth the investment of time to have these conversations it's worth the investment of money to reward
47:26
your people that are bringing more and more and more value to keep them motivated they do have to experience
47:32
some of that value for themselves and and thankfully these people are often intrinsically motivated um but you
47:40
should reward the people that are helping your practice to grow and to thrive and to have the mindset of I'm
47:46
just not going to give any until they ask it just it it is it's very
47:51
transactional and it is not a recipe for success in my book okay well we were all
47:56
over the place there I hope we answer the question for the broader audience of when is it appropriate ask for a raise I
48:03
don't think we missed anything did we I don't think so okay if we did y'all let us know yep thanks for joining the
48:10
conversation today we hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone but we also hope that you're
48:16
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48:24
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