When to Call it Quits on an Employee

The hardest decision any leader must make is when to ultimately call it quits on an employee. It is a gut wrenching process that cannot be taken lightly. In this episode, Dr. Kuba and Bethany discuss the importance of giving a team member every opportunity to be successful, and it is important for the practice leader to consider changing the person’s roles and responsibilities to better fit his or her strengths. However, when all options fail, a practice leader must make a decision to part ways with the employee. Listen in to hear all of the thought processes behind this grueling decision. 

Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

When to Coach and When to Fire Underperforming Employees

How to Fire Employees

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then
0:09
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba
0:14
as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama.
0:22
Let's get started. Hey friend. Um, I already told you what I wanted to talk about. Do you remember what that was?
0:28
Yes. Basically, how long the honeymoon phase should last in employment in new
0:35
employees. Is that right? Yeah. And and kind of like um I feel like I
0:42
And you too, you say like you try to like you're the last person to want to fire. Yeah. And I feel like I'm the last
0:48
last person to want to fire cuz I like try to repurpose. And you're like the CPR is like call it like and I'm so like
0:55
no no no I'm going to keep going. One more shock. Right. Um because I'm really like we spent so much time and I hired
1:01
this person for a reason. There's got to be some redeeming thing about they're just not on the right seat. They're in
1:06
the right bus. But determining when it's time to get them off the bus. I feel
1:11
like I really struggle with um and I would say more often than not if I look back I probably let them linger on the
1:19
bus too long. Yeah. Um and so if you could help us give some feedback. I know
1:25
even a a dear friend of mine um reached out to me last week and was like you
1:30
know this person we've been chugging along for a year and a half and I finally was just like you got to go and
1:36
so for me for her having said that I'm like I wonder if she could even go back
1:41
and track and trace and go should it have been month six has she just been dealing with BS for all these months or
1:48
do we fool ourselves into going oh things are going to get better or one or two things do get better or you know
1:54
what, but it'll get better because we're about to switch insurance or or software or it's going to get better because
2:00
we're about to drop that insurance or it's going to get better because and so do we do we tap dance around all of that
2:07
and and kind of fool ourselves or is it the opposite where we really maybe should have stuck it out a little bit
2:13
longer but then we're firing at month two, we're firing at 40 days, at 4 days and it's like we just can't keep
2:20
somebody in. So on both ends of the extreme, my question to you is because again I'm about to embark on this right
2:27
now where we've got we've hired some people that have good histories
2:33
um in from where the offices they've come from, but does that mean they're
2:39
going to click in my office? Right? And so how do I so last week's episode was
2:45
like how do I integrate them with my team? But hand inhand with that goes how long do I give it what what are the
2:52
factors I look at to go okay you need to get off my bus before you you know cause
2:57
other people to leave the bus at the next stop. Um do you have any tips for
3:02
us on those types of dynamics? Yeah and and it really is I think you've brought
3:08
up the balance in it all. We can't give up too quickly but we also can't hang on too long. So there is a balance to it
3:16
and a lot of times we approach that from a feeling standpoint
3:23
um because our feelings are wrapped into it at some point and I think we've got to have some logic that's built into it.
3:31
So, well, and I would say either feelings behind it or desperation, if you will. Like maybe you maybe you're
3:38
like, "This is all I've got right now or we've been through every other candidate now. What am I going to do?" And so,
3:44
you're kind of like, I'm just stuck here. But then you hire somebody else and you
3:50
don't know if the original person is going to chase that person away or if you fire original person and now new
3:56
person's like, "Oh, that's just what you do, so next time." Like how do you finesse your way through this? Yeah.
4:03
Super clunk thing that most of us clunk our way through. Well, and and clunk your way through, but also these
4:08
decisions that are being made in the midst of life, you know, not only your personal life, but then the everyday
4:15
life of running a practice and caring for patients. And so sometimes these decisions can feel overwhelming. So, we
4:23
either avoid making that decision cuz our brain is going, okay, what's the aftermath of this decision and do I have
4:29
the energy to even deal with that right now? Or do I have the energy to try to hire somebody new now? So, it really can
4:37
be an exhausting choice to make, but we do have to strike the balance because
4:43
I've been in so many practices where the the employee was kept too long and now
4:49
it's got reached a point where the the team that the doctor wants to keep is exhausted by this person and now we're
4:56
at risk of losing other people. And so we have to strike that balance of of calling it quits when it needs to be
5:03
called quits and knowing when to call it quits. So I think there's a few elements
5:09
that we need to talk about here, which is number one, have we actually given this person the
5:16
support that they need? So what do I mean by the support that they need? So if when we're spotting deficiencies in
5:23
their performance, in their personality, in their um role, and what they're
5:30
doing, have we actually addressed that? And if so, how many times have we addressed that? And have we addressed it
5:38
in the right way? So, when they're faltering or or not upholding the
5:43
standards that we've given them, we need to have an one-on-one conversation
5:48
that's documented and clearly says what you're looking for. You cannot use
5:53
ambiguous things like you just got to get better with patient communication.
5:59
That means nothing to anybody. This makes me think of the article that you wrote for our June um actually it's
6:07
going to be our July um digest that talks about um different perspectives.
6:12
White, the same white is not the same. This color white that's on these walls and here is a different white than is on
6:19
the white down at the other house on our property. So we you have to be clear. Don't just say you need to improve in
6:25
patient communication or you just need to continue to grow. What do you mean? How how do I grow? You need to have
6:32
specific examples of, "Hey, I want you to be better at patient communication."
6:39
For example, when you greet patients, you do not I've
6:44
watched you and you do not establish any eye contact. You keep your eyes on the computer and you don't engage with the
6:51
patient. That needs to change. I need you to establish eye contact. I need you to smile. Heck, stand up even to greet
7:00
them. that that introduction is really important to our practice. So, I'm just going to again give you a hard time with
7:06
this and say I think if I didn't have you, I would avoid all of these conversations just because I could
7:14
either see myself going, I'm going to upset you and you're going to get defensive or you're going to argue with me about something and am I going to be
7:22
able to sustain the the conversation um without me being the one to back down? I think um and whether this is
7:30
true or not, but this is what I I believe often times. So, but I do feel
7:35
like a lot of times male doctors can get away with this, but if a female doctor says it, we're opening a different can
7:41
of worms. And so, what do you have suggestion? There's absolutely a gender
7:47
difference here. And I'm glad you brought it up because this anytime I'm recommending a conversation like this to
7:53
one of my female clients, it is much more complex for them because there's
8:00
that turmoil of, oh my gosh, what are they going to think if I lay down the law like this?
8:07
So there is a difference in the way that employees receive that type of feedback
8:13
from a male and female um doctor. But
8:19
to me, we cannot avoid these conversations. And sometimes I think female doctors create their own problems
8:27
in avoiding these conversations or having the conversation and making it
8:32
too soft and flowery. they actually are just making the matter worse. And again,
8:38
they're trying to to navigate this conversation in a way that we still like each other at the end of it. And I just
8:44
think that yes, it's one one thing to be liked by your team, it's another thing to be respected by your team. And liking
8:51
can come and go. And as much as I want every female and male practice owner to
8:56
be liked by their team, that isn't always possible. As long as there's respect there, then it can be a good
9:03
working relationship. So, there's a lot of times that I'm pushing my female clients to have a very direct
9:09
conversation. One of my sweet, sweet ladies that I just had a phone call with recently, we were talking about this
9:15
issue, and she is syrupy, sweet, precious, and she was struggling with
9:20
having to lay the law down for one of her employees who was essentially refusing to do what she asked her to do.
9:27
And so she she had to draw the line and say, "If you do not do this, you're in
9:32
turn resigning from your position." And that was a very hard conversation for her. She's not had to do that before.
9:39
Um, but we think about the consequence of her not doing that. She keeps an
9:44
employee on her team that doesn't respect her authority, that doesn't abide by what the doctor has asked her
9:50
to do. And then my client, the doctor, is constantly in turmoil over this
9:55
person. life is too short to to retain that person on the team or to not have
10:01
this type of conversation. Okay, sorry. So, have the have the
10:07
conversation. Um, they need to have feedback and it needs to be direct and you need to document it. Then, to me, I
10:14
always call that the litmus test. Can this person improve or not? We don't
10:20
know that if we haven't done a good litmus test. If we've been fuzzy about it, then we're going to get fuzzy
10:25
results. If we've been clear and direct, then you watch that person. Okay, I told her very clearly that I want you
10:32
establishing eye contact, smiling, now you watch. Did she do it? Does she do it
10:37
once and then went back to her old ways? Did she do it for 2 days and then she stopped doing it? Went back doing her
10:43
thing or has she done it with some consistency? Okay, look at that. She received feedback, she implemented it
10:50
and she's doing it now. Okay, test number one. Now, there's going to be multiple other things that come up where
10:56
you're going to have to keep giving her that direct feedback and you just keep testing to see if she can improve. As
11:01
long as somebody can listen and improve, I think they're worth keeping. If they
11:08
engage in that conversation and you've been clear and they're inconsistent with
11:13
improvement, that's a maybe. But I will say most of those end up not working out. It's the ones that listen and can
11:20
improve, that show consistent improvement. It doesn't mean perfection. It just means that they're you can tell
11:25
they're trying to make that improvement. Well, I think this goes back to an episode we had two or three episodes ago
11:31
that was, you know, again, what can't is it a ceiling issue or is it an
11:36
attitude issue? And so really trying to tease that out is I think what I've always um been, you know, I find very
11:44
challenging. and going, "Have I given you enough opportunities to try to
11:49
change a and and or do you bring something else
11:54
that's super valuable and I can overlook this?" Yeah. Um there's another thing that comes up here that I think is worth
12:01
bringing up. Uh so we're kind of talking more performance, right? Like is this person
12:08
it the checklist that we had of her ahead of time where it's like, "Okay, good. She checks eight out of the 10 boxes. Let's try her out." She gets in
12:15
and performance is inconsistent. We coach them. She improves. Performance is
12:20
where we want it to be. But I can't tell you how many times that it's not just a
12:25
performance thing. There are so many times it's a personality thing. That it's like what I
12:31
saw in that interview process and even in the first couple months is actually not who I got as an employee. Some some
12:39
people can fake it for a pretty good period of time and then we kind of see with full
12:45
full-blown eyes that oh no, she is not sweet Sally. She's actually
12:52
menacing Mary. Sweet Mary. That's a good one.
12:58
Oh man. And sometimes your team members can spot it before you can. Oh, I think that's almost always. I think that's
13:03
almost always the team spots it first. Yeah. So then you start to hear these little,
13:09
it may not even be like, "Oh gosh, Sally ain't gonna work. She's she said this and she did." It may just be little
13:16
subtle things that your team says like, "Oh, did you happen to overhear Sally in
13:21
team meeting when she said this? That was interesting, wasn't it, Doc?" And you're like, "What was interesting about that? I I don't get." So your team
13:28
members might be trying to give you little warning signs like this girl ain't working. And um so it doesn't
13:36
always have to be performance, it can be personality as well, which honestly
13:42
those go hand in hand with so many things though. Like I know um I'm thinking of one that
13:49
every time I mean I I was probably the first one to want to let her go. Like every 3 months I was calling you going,
13:55
"Okay, she's on my nerves again." But then like we'd talk, it would improve,
14:00
but really at the core of it, it was a personality issue. Yeah. And her personality really irritated me. And I
14:07
think that's where I'm like, you know, I guess to be fair, there's others that their personality wins me over and they
14:15
don't perform as well. I'm like, but gosh, Chucks, I really do like that person. I connect with that person and
14:21
she's so darn likable. Yes. And everyone else is like, what do you like about her? And I'm like, I don't know. I just She resonates with me. I think she's
14:27
funny. And so I think it just, you know, it's just that mix of trying to figure
14:32
out. I think I rely a lot a lot on my team for that too, where there are times where I'm like, "Okay, like you brought
14:39
me concerns, she's brought me concerns. Y'all are telling me that we've already talked about this set of concerns. We're
14:44
not really seeing improvements. What do y'all want to do?" Yeah. And I let the team kind of decide what they want to
14:50
do. Yeah. I do think too and personality, you're right, personality
14:55
and performance kind of go hand in hand. I can think of I think the person that you're referring
15:01
to as an example, but also even with a client I was talking to this week that
15:07
has this lady has a great personality and just just knows how to kind of whine
15:12
and dine the doctor and distract, I think is the key word, distract from the
15:18
fact that she's not doing her job. And so then after a certain point, most
15:24
positions it becomes evident that that person is not doing their job at some point. Um,
15:31
but they've they've distracted you from seeing that for a long time.
15:36
So, I think the person that you're referring to, again, she talked a good talk, had a great personality, and could
15:44
just kind of explain things away. And her things weren't obvious mistakes or
15:51
anything like that. It was just chaos would be the word that I would say would constantly seem to be swirling around
15:57
her was just chaos. It's not like there was a Thankfully your office has such I
16:02
would say ironclad systems that for the most part she didn't cause damage to the practice. Someone caught it but she's
16:08
creating a lot of work and chaos for the others around her. Yeah. But then again
16:14
she's so darn likable that you just can kind of look past it. Um or I think of
16:21
so we've got you know early on you need to kind of correct and say you need to do this differently and be clear and all
16:27
that but also like when you look at longer spans do you have clear
16:34
markers of success for this person. Um you know some positions are
16:40
easy like you think about same same period of time your treatment coordinator
16:45
um that was kind of in the same vein as this other lady and she had very clear directives treat I was tracking treat
16:52
treatment acceptance I still do but at that time in particular we had transitioned treatment acceptance away
16:59
from a lady who was utterly failing in it bless her heart not for lack of effort she just wasn't good at it um and
17:05
so we had gi we had kind of let that leash go as long as we possibly could and then had to sever ties with her and
17:12
brought in this lady to take over that lady's spot. And so I had set up my goal
17:19
in bringing this new treatment coordinator on was we need to get treatment acceptance up and this is your
17:24
sole task. Figure out how to do it. And so she had very clear directives on what
17:30
she was to achieve, which was to establish higher treatment acceptance and really good follow-up processes on
17:36
the back end. And so she was good at one of those, but not consistent with it. So
17:42
when I say good, she did the task of setting up the follow-ups afterwards. And and we worked together to figure out
17:49
the frequency of those contacts afterwards, the the variety of contacts.
17:55
So she was good at setting up the system. She was not consistent with following through with it and treatment
18:01
acceptance did not go up at all. In fact, it diminished a little bit more from our one that really struggled with
18:06
it. So, at the end of the day, no matter how how long you've given this person,
18:12
if they're not fulfilling the role that you have assigned to them, no matter how
18:18
many times you've talked with them, coached them, said, "Have you tried this and that?" If they're not performing,
18:25
then you have to cut ties at some point. And that that for me is where I'm like, okay, but what else could they be doing?
18:30
Like, they're not good at performing this. Is there anything else they could do? Do we need to switch seats in the
18:36
office? Like, maybe they could get us to this part. Like, they're really good at building a connection with the patient
18:42
and kind of empathizing and doing all of that. And maybe that's where their role stops and they tag out and somebody else
18:49
comes in and discusses the financials cuz this person struggled with fin like can we do that? And ultimately the
18:55
answer was no. But I think that for me is where I'm trying to repurpose. But um
19:00
I think at that point where I've missed the mark many times is not really listening. I'm the one who's kind of
19:07
been like, well, but I can see why and in this case, wherever. And whether that
19:13
was if I like the person or whether it was my fears of going, oh my god, I got to start over and like go through the
19:19
interview process that that I really don't want to do. Um, so I think that's those have been things that have
19:25
contributed to me dragging out the process too long. Yeah. But but I think
19:30
you bring up a good point though that if they're not excelling in their role, you
19:35
we really should consider can we swap seats? Can we before we actually move to termination? And sometimes you and I
19:43
have been in this spot quite a bit in your practice where we reach a point where we're like, okay, this person's
19:48
not excelling in her role. Could we shift her here?
19:54
but the person that's there is doing a decent job or we imagine the person
19:59
that's in that role doing the the failing team members role and we're like oh no she couldn't do that and then
20:06
essentially you might be down to having to pick who who are we keeping it may be
20:11
that you literally can't move that person around without taking somebody else's um job and so thinking through
20:18
those scenarios as well is you should always consider before you fire them if
20:24
they can fit in any other role. So I would guess then th those are good benchmarks if you will like number one
20:30
make sure you're clear on the role that you hired that person for and that you have set clear like um tasks or goals of
20:39
what they need to be achieving. Yeah. And then um so if they're not if they're
20:44
falling short in that then that really should be kind of the writing on the wall going okay well I hired you to be
20:49
an RDA but you keep cone cutting these X-rays like it's just not going to work or you keep putting the hand piece in
20:55
the you know shaker thing like we've already talked about this 10 times like
21:01
that's not going to work. Um and so if that's the case but she's super sweet. She's the one who shows up on time. She
21:08
really wins over the trust of the parents. Okay. Well, could you be our um
21:14
treatment discussing person? Cuz your your technical skills aren't quite there, but you are really good at
21:20
engaging with a parent. Maybe we're going to transition you to be more of a treatment talk type talk person. And
21:26
then you engage with people. Maybe if we have the budget and time for maybe your marketing some and then if you come back
21:32
at me and go, "Nope, I want to be an RDA. That's what my license is in. That's the career path I want." or
21:39
that's fine. I don't mind marketing, but I, you know, really you you're saying marketing is only eight hours of the
21:44
week, but I need 15 hours. At that point, that might be very objective
21:50
going, "Okay, well, you know, check box this." Um, but I think if it's if it's
21:55
somebody where you're like, "God, your personality just really grates on my nerves. I'm firing you." But then you
22:02
did coach them on how to take X-rays and they did. They were able to learn X-rays. then maybe that's your benchmark
22:08
to say, "Okay, I got to figure out how to short of them, you know, unless they have something else that yeah, they
22:14
irritate you, but they're also driving patients away too." Okay, so how are we
22:19
benchmarking that to go, well, you made five patients happy, but you made five unhappy. That's not good enough in our
22:26
practice, you know? So it's like how do you do you have do you have uh goals
22:33
benchmarks that are very transparent so that they and you can see like okay
22:38
you're really not hitting the mark here and if you're really not hitting the mark then is there another mark we could
22:44
create for you. Yeah and then if there's really not then that's where it's time to go. Yeah agree completely with that.
22:52
the clarity of that. And again, it's it's super helpful for the practice owner or leader
22:59
um to have that. It's very it's helpful to know like it's not just a feely thing. This is objective things that
23:06
we're looking at, but it is equally as helpful to that employee. They need to
23:12
know what they're aiming for cuz they could be tiring themselves completely out working on the wrong thing or doing
23:18
it the wrong way. So that clarity is equally important for both parties quite
23:24
honestly. I also like what you said about the frequent check-ins with somebody because I think one that that
23:32
can um open the door for things that if you are saying things and they're like oh I had no idea that I was supposed to
23:38
be XYZ and you're like what? So at least it can bring out those or if they say something they're like well you know cuz
23:44
I'm supposed to be doing this this this and you're like what? No you're not you're supposed to be doing it this way. So it gives those opportunities. I think
23:51
moreover too it's when I say to somebody in our practice, we had one recently.
23:57
She's been a relatively new hire. She's doing beautifully. Well, we've been looking to hire for this other office.
24:05
You were in my office the other day. I said, "Hey, can you check on new girl?" Because I haven't really checked in on her in a while because we haven't had
24:12
any feedback for her because she's doing great. Which is, you know, kind of refreshing, kind of odd, but she's
24:17
really like I'm not seeing anything that she's really bumbling up here. She's she's actually doing well. And so, but
24:23
will you check in with her cuz I don't want to just assume she's doing well because I have been distracted with this other office stuff. And you said she was
24:31
really funny because she was super quiet and her thought was she finally admitted to you that she thought she was about to
24:37
get fired because we were hiring and you had to go, "No, we we've got another practice. We're trying to staff. What's
24:43
wrong with you?" Right? But that was just like her mindset and we we would have never guessed that. Yeah. Um, but
24:49
for me, so that's always my point when I always tell newer hires and go, you
24:54
know, if we've had to pull you in multiple times, and you've seen mine and Bethy's face a lot of times, then I
25:01
would say that that's a problem. And so, cuz sometimes we do get into where I don't know, sometimes we can be a little
25:07
fluffy and sugar coaty, and sometimes we can be a little harsh. Either way, it's funny to me how people
25:14
interpret those. And I can think of one that we had to let go, you know, a couple of years ago and she just really
25:21
didn't see this coming. And I'm like, that's odd because we're having every 10 days we're having these hourlong
25:28
conversations with you where it's finally where I was just like, you know what, I do love her, but I can't do this
25:33
anymore. And but she was completely caught off guard. And I'm like, that's
25:38
weird because in the last 3 months, there's probably at least eight conversations we've had between Bethany
25:45
and I, eight and 3 months, corrective conversations. Why would you not think
25:50
that this was coming? Yeah. Um, and I think even in one of those, like maybe conversation number four, I was like,
25:56
"Dude, if we don't see improvements, like I'm going to be making changes in staffing." Yeah. And so somehow that
26:02
still didn't register. And so I just start going that at least for me I can at least go did we do our due diligence
26:10
or did we really catch you off guard and I think the frequent check-ins you can go no we checked in this many times and
26:17
it wasn't just me and it wasn't just Bethany it was a variety that we tried. Um but really then I go back and I say
26:24
eight's far too many that that's on me for not listening sooner. Um but I think here that those should be your
26:31
benchmarks. Do you have kind of benchmarks for tasks and proficiency for
26:36
the role and also cultural meeting skills? Have you showed up late too many times? Have you skipped these meetings?
26:42
Are you always the first one to leave and somebody else gets stuck with the last patient, etc., etc. Like, have you
26:47
been like, "Oh, yes, I will." You know, I I check the emails, but it's been 2 days since you've checked the emails and
26:53
patients have been calling waiting for an answer. That to me is both a proficiency problem and a culture
27:00
problem. We've already conver
27:11
um and sometimes you have to raise the level of intensity in that conversation.
27:17
I can think of um some conversations I had just a few months ago where there
27:22
it's in a larger practice and there were two team members on the business team that were kind of buddy buddy buddy and
27:31
they themselves were kind of creating this subculture within the business team
27:37
that was not acceptable. it was not flowing with the
27:43
overall flow and culture of the practice. But me from a consulting
27:48
standpoint, I was like, we can't fire both of them because that's severely crippling. And so we did our series of
27:56
conversations of like, hey, we're going to tweak this, do this, and you know, do this task instead of this now since this
28:03
hasn't been done well. And so we did a lot of that. We moved seats. we moved
28:08
them to different locations in the practice like hey actually why don't you sit at this computer now instead because we thought maybe separating some would
28:15
be helpful anyway it was a long long process and it still came down to we had not changed that culture with the two of
28:23
them and so I can think of the last conversation that I had with both of
28:29
them individually and I hedged my bets and I told the doctor I said this is
28:36
what this is how I'm going to approach the conversation. Are you okay with that? And he was like, "Yep, go for it."
28:42
And I told both of them. I said, "It's a problem. You It's a problem. Here are
28:48
all the things that are a problem. And by the way, I've got it documented here. We've already started looking for your
28:54
replacement. Now, you can surprise me. I would love
28:59
for you to surprise me. I'd be appreciative if you surprised me. Please surprise me. and just turn this around
29:07
and don't put me in a position of having to replace you. But just so you know, I want this meeting is really to say these
29:13
are all still the deficiencies and if they're not corrected immediately, you're going to be replaced and we're
29:19
already looking for your replacement. So, it was a it was a game of uh what is
29:24
it? Chicken. You know, when you're you're to me, it was a game of chicken. I was like, one of them's going to
29:30
improve. I can lose one. I can't lose two. I think one of them was going to improve. I didn't know which one, but I
29:37
had a feeling one of them was going to improve. And sure enough, that is what happened. One of them completely
29:43
improved and kind of distance herself from the other one. And the other one continued to decline. And she didn't
29:49
leave. I thought she would have left on her own. Nope. Nope. Um, we did end up having to uh terminate her from the
29:57
team, but it made it clear who should stay cuz sometimes you're just like, I
30:03
don't know what to do. And so sometimes we have to elevate the feeling in that conversation so that the person knows,
30:09
no, this is serious by the way, like to the point that we're already looking for your replacement. And again, that is not
30:16
uncom I mean, that is not a comfortable conversation. That's very uncomfortable. But sometimes you just got to know, do
30:22
they have that ability to level up? Are they not registering the seriousness of this? Insert that. Give them a chance.
30:30
Give them a chance to prove themselves. And so um sometimes we do have to make
30:36
it very very clear that this is serious. I think of the lady that you're talking about that we had so many conversations
30:42
intense. I remember the last couple conversations. I was not myself in those
30:47
conversations. I snapped back at her. I rolled eyes. I was I gave her a really
30:54
hard time in those meetings cuz I was personally so frustrated with her and I was tired of the excuses and so I was
31:00
nipping all those and that is not me in meetings. Um and so but even that she
31:07
didn't fully register, oh things are bad. So sometimes we think we're
31:12
communicating this is bad and we haven't really communicated that without bluntly
31:17
saying this is a problem to the point that it could cost you your job.
31:23
Ew, yucky. Um so yeah, I think those are the takeaways I guess is um have some
31:30
benchmarks, have some clarity on where your boundaries are and what is not
31:35
going to fly and try to stick to that communication. Yeah. clear litmus test.
31:40
So yeah, a lot it's you got to know you got to know whether this person is it or not and that only
31:47
happens with a lot of uncomfortable conversations unfortunately. So
31:52
fun stuff. Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in
31:59
knowing that you are not alone, but we also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try
32:05
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are rooting for you today as you manage your dental drama.