Etiquette When “Stealing” Employees

 Dr. Kuba and Bethany are back in the closet today because they have an extra dramatic topic – stealing employees! When should a doctor check references? What are the rules about contacting an existing employer? What if the employee works for somebody that you know – what should you do? Dr. Kuba and Bethany dive deep and talk about some sticky situations that can come up in this process. It is a delicate subject to say the least, but the tips are critical when hiring. So, listen closely! 

Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

Spotting Employee Burnout

My Employee Quit, Now What?  

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then
0:09
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba
0:14
as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama.
0:22
Let's get started. Good morning, ma'am. Good morning. We are back in a
0:28
traditional closet. Like a literal closet. We haven't done this. And how long has it been since we've been
0:33
sitting in your closet or yours? Like or mine. Or yours. Yeah. Um Well, I guess yours is out because of the new house and the
0:40
new studioish, if you will. No reason to be in the closet. Yeah. At your house. Yeah.
0:46
Um but yeah, but since you live out in the boonies in the wilderness, I I'm reluctant to come out there
0:53
in your favorite place. the place that just beckons you to come. Yeah. I'm like, we got to watch the time. It's getting dark. I got to get
0:59
out of here. So, um y'all don't understand. She lives out in the wilderness. Um so, uh anyway,
1:06
here we are in my closet today. And um thank you Dr. Jones for uh indulging on
1:13
my questions last week. Um and I'm just like, dude, he is such a positive man.
1:19
How do the rest of us that just can't, you know, like can't get there, what's
1:25
plan B? Um, finding joy and other things. That was your
1:31
takeaway, right? Oh, no. He works cuz he doesn't have plan B. Build a plan B.
1:37
Build hobbies. Honestly, but that resonated with me. I was like, that's the same issue I have
1:42
is and and trying to really like jokes aside, trying to be very much like you're right, like it's the privilege of
1:48
working. I get to go to work. Yeah. Um like my my kid said, like I get to earn
1:55
money. So um so anyway, thank you to him. And uh
2:00
today though, I want to turn the spotlight back to me. Uh things I'm dealing with if you don't
2:06
mind. Um, so, um, I and I and I think when I asked
2:14
this, I was like, please tell me you have other examples as well. And then you reassured me that other people do
2:21
have to navigate through. But I've got kind of two different things at that
2:28
situation. The recurring theme is a similar one. And it it's back to
2:34
navigating. What are the rules, the etiquette? What does everybody do? Has
2:40
it changed since I graduated? Does this new generation do it different? Um, and
2:46
the topic or question I have is about hiring,
2:52
but what is the etiquette behind like um if it's somebody in a neighboring town
2:58
that I know and it was their RDA? Yeah. What is my moral, ethical, whatever
3:06
obligation of saying, "Hey, Dr. Smith,
3:12
your assistant, Betty, applied for an RDA in my position.
3:17
Like, so I think for me, for for one thing, I'm doing my due diligence for myself to see was Betty a good worker or
3:24
not. Yeah. Um, so there's a whole thing about references and whatever,
3:30
which I think you've said a good majority of people don't ever check references,
3:35
right? And I think we could that could almost be a separate podcast, the pros and cons and all of that. Um, and I I
3:41
would say for for those of us that hate checking references and we do it, but I
3:46
hate it and I question how useful it is, honestly. But I think it's because of
3:52
the awkwardness of it. Do I really want that information? Like, do might it be different in my office? May
3:59
maybe she stole from you because you were a penny pincher and you were mean and she had to steal from you but she's
4:04
not going to steal from me, right? Like you know it's just information that I'd rather it's hard to deal with that information. Um but all but the other
4:12
part of this is what I guess what I'm asking here is what is my obligation to
4:20
if I know the person from where the employee is coming what is my obligation
4:26
to that person right have I made that am I am I making sense here I know you know what I'm saying
4:32
I know exactly what you're saying so maybe if I can summarize it we're talking about almost two separate things
4:38
like reference checks is one thing. This would be the person that they currently
4:44
work for or most recently, as far as you know, you're stealing them from
4:50
somebody, I guess, is the best way to say it. Cuz to me, if they've already left, that's kind of like a different
4:56
scenario. But I want to talk about that, too, cuz it's a boat I'm finding myself in. Yes. Um, but if they're at your buddy's
5:05
office down the street or even your nonbuddy's office, but down the street, you're like, "Do is
5:12
there something that I owe that person for stealing essentially their
5:18
employee?" That's the way I kind of think of it. So, it's not reference checks. It's not they've already left
5:24
the practice that, you know, it is they're currently working and now I'm
5:29
about to hire them onto my team. Right. Exactly. And and I think it's interesting because there's some people
5:34
that are like not my problem. Like this person is fair game, but I feel like
5:40
even especially around the time of the pandemic, I feel like there was a bunch of like more corporates than anybody
5:45
else, but we're actually poaching. We're calling offices saying, "Hey, Betty, you just answered the phone. Is Dr. Kuba a
5:53
crappy owner? Come work for me. So, I get that there are ethics across the
5:58
board on this one. And there are plenty of people that are like, "That's not my problem. If you're poachable, I'm going to poach them and I'm not going to think
6:04
twice." Like, that's the nature of business and that's that, right? For those of us that don't feel that way and are like, "There's karma in the
6:10
world and what goes around comes around." Y um what I guess my thought is when I
6:16
first started my you know in the dental world of private practice I feel like and maybe as I worked for a
6:24
gentleman who worked in a small town and he was just you know so um
6:31
he was full of ethics and grace and all of that and so I I kind of learned him as my mentor and kind of how do you it's
6:38
not just as simple as oh well they applied. I hired them and you know he
6:44
was like there's more to it in terms of goodwill in the community goodwill in the profession goodwill to each other
6:51
and and more or less he he didn't believe in karma but that's where he's kind of he's very much like you know
6:56
good solid strong Christian man do unto others that kind of thing. Um, and so I
7:02
think in my mind, that's what I've always had in my mind going, "Okay, well, I'm sitting here. I've put a post
7:07
out for an RDA. Jane applies. Well, Jane works for Dr. Smith down the next town
7:14
over, and I run into Dr. Smith at our pediatric meetings. Does Dr. Smith even
7:20
know that Jane is looking?" Right? Do I need to give Dr. Smith the heads up
7:25
that Jane is looking? Like, what what am I? And don't I want to ask Dr. Smith
7:31
like even for my own selfish self don't want to ask Dr. Smith like why is Jane leaving your office? Is she a good
7:36
employee or not? Like um so cringeworthy topic and and way of
7:42
approaching things. So I guess to me but I don't know what the current standard is like post pandemic and now this newer
7:48
generation and people are hiring and firing and accepting jobs and not accepting jobs all over text like so
7:55
it's just different. Um, so I kind of wanted to pick your brain on what is the current standard.
8:01
Is there one? What are your thoughts on all of this? Yeah. So to me it's um almost two
8:07
schools of thought on this. So I want to talk through each school of thought because I think both are relevant here.
8:13
So I tend to think of it both from the employees standpoint and from my clients
8:20
the practice owner's standpoint. So, when I look at it from the practice owners standpoint, I want all the
8:28
information I can get. So, I'm a big fan of reference checks. Even if it's just
8:34
real neutralized information that we get, if we're good at those reference checks, we can read between the lines.
8:40
We can hear tone changes. We can hear we can ask, "What are they not saying?" and
8:47
get enough information from that to help fill in any gaps that we had from the interview process. So, I love when a
8:55
practice owner knows somebody that the person works for and they're like, "Oh,
9:01
that's my buddy. I'm going to reach out to him or her and ask about this employee." And in a way, it's doing them
9:08
the professional courtesy of letting them know that that there's going to be a completely other side of the coin
9:13
here. So, I'm talking one side of the coin and then you're going to hear me say something completely different on
9:18
the other side of the coin. It's a very mixed bag on this. So, as a consultant, I love for my clients to have the
9:25
opportunity to contact the person that they're currently working for. Now, my
9:32
favorite is when they've already left because then it's like, great, free
9:37
game. I can contact that person, say, "Hey, this person that used to work for you has applied. what can you tell me
9:44
about him or her? Right? And then it's just a good neutral buddyto buddy conversation. You're not stealing
9:51
anybody from your buddy or from your colleague down the street. It's just they've already left now they're
9:57
applying. That's the cleanest version. Although that's what I'm going to argue with you a little bit there. And maybe
10:03
this is just me with my personality, my peopley, whatever. But I almost feel like there's a lot of um emotion behind
10:11
a lot of those because either they were very happy that that person left their office.
10:16
Yeah. And now they're like, "Oh my god, don't hire this person. This person was awful. They stole from me. They did whatever."
10:23
Or they're bitter that that person left their office. Like somebody leaving the office is usually not
10:29
um there's usually baggage behind that. Yes. And so I think then like uh I had a
10:36
call this a couple years ago and this person had had already had put in her
10:42
notice like her last day was end of May and um I asked somebody else like is
10:48
this you know do if you know anybody we're looking to hire. She gave me this lady's phone number. I contacted the
10:54
lady. She's like yes I've put in my notice. The doc knows all of that. Turns
10:59
out I knew her boss. We weren't friends per se, but we're colleagues and we know
11:04
each other. And um so I called her and she's like, I can't believe she and
11:09
I was like, "Oh, I thought she'd put in a notice." I mean, she has, but she said she would continue to help me. And I'm
11:16
like, "Oh, I don't care. She can continue to help you. Like, that's fine. I I didn't know any of that. Like, she
11:22
we've had one conversation." Yeah. Well, I can't believe she's And so, I
11:27
kind of was like, I don't get it. Like if you knew she's leaving, but then you were hoping she'd stay, but then you
11:32
were and now are you thinking of me like I've kind of stolen your backup plan,
11:38
right? And or are you thinking I'm an idiot for hiring this person who's clearly talking
11:44
out of both no luck to you? Yeah. And so there's just emotion behind it.
11:52
Yeah. So which sometimes you have to sift through. So sometimes that perspective,
11:59
even if they're kind of pissy about the person leaving or they're like this conversation like you're talking about,
12:05
it gives you perspective on what that employee might have been in. So,
12:12
right, if you've interviewed this person and they're just like, you know, I'm just looking for an environment where I can really grow and accelerate and blah
12:20
and they're using the professional interview questions and you're like, but why can't you grow in your current
12:25
practice, right? And then you have a conversation with your colleague and
12:30
they're just like, I just can't believe her blah blah blah. And you're like, you're not making sense. Like, this is
12:35
you, the practice owner, are not making sense in how you're talking about. You're making it all emotional and
12:40
feeling. I'm not getting much fact from you. Yes. And then you're like, "Ah, okay. Now I
12:46
know why this person is leaving that practice and
12:52
I know that's not our environment. We're not an emotional environment. We're actually a growth environment and we
12:58
have constant opportunities for people to grow and we're very just professional. So this is actually this
13:04
could be a good fit for us. If she's not been able to be successful there because of a highly emotional practice owner, I
13:11
think she could be successful here. So even that perspective, even if it's an emotional rant from that person, even
13:19
that can be helpful in ident identifying why that person is possibly leaving.
13:25
Like I think the only way that I could see it not being messy and with emotion is if the person is leaving because
13:33
they're like moving far away. Yeah. And so I think that's what like in this
13:38
case, if I remember correctly, the assistant had told the colleague of mine that she was leaving because she was
13:44
tired of the drive and commuting. Yeah. Um and and so I guess that's you
13:51
know and to this colleague I wasn't far enough away for it to make sense
13:56
for it to make sense to her. Like she's just like oh she's full of garbage. She told me she was leaving cuz she was
14:02
tired of the commute. But I'm like yeah but you have her driving to the hospital a lot of days which that's a commute for this lady.
14:08
And then you're having her drive out to your office and then you've got a second location that's even further out. So she's navigating between three different
14:14
places even though I'm still like a 35minut drive for her. It's just one location and it's you know um but
14:23
exactly it gave me insight into going okay I think that's why she cuz I don't want to not you know be like oh I'm
14:29
different it's going to be better with me. No if she's leaving your office and she's saying it's cuz of the commute and it's like her commute is 38 minutes to
14:36
your office and 35 to mine. Okay now now I'm going okay you candid are full of
14:41
something. Yeah, but in this case I was like, "No, she's got a point. She is going all over the
14:48
Metroplex. Some days over an hour, some days 45 minutes, some days 35 minutes, and every
14:54
day is different for her." And I could see how that would wear her out. And that tells me maybe if she had said
15:01
that, you had the opportunity to say, "Don't go out to the second location, only come to this one. Can I retain you
15:07
as an employee?" That tells me you didn't give her that option. Yeah. Even what you're saying right now,
15:13
you're not saying, "Hey, no, no, no. I tried to only pull her in this one." You didn't say that. So, that tells me you
15:18
want your cake and eat it, too, and this lady's finally had it. Yeah. Um, and sure enough, yeah, she's been with us now for three and a half years
15:25
and a delightful employee. Yeah. Um, but I've had a couple over the last two or three years that we we've let go
15:33
or they've left or whatever and then a colleague will call me and say, "Hey, this person's applied."
15:39
And I'm just like, uh, yeah. You know, um, it it may be a totally different
15:46
what you're able to offer them and accommodate for them. Yeah. So, I think, did the person steal from
15:53
me? No. Did the person show up on time? No. That was one issue we had. So, I
15:59
will tell you like if that's a big deal for you, but if you've screened, you know, but the these people were
16:04
excellent at this this this this. Y. So do with it what you will because I don't want a colleague mad at me either.
16:10
You didn't tell me that this is what I was going to be up against with this employee. I tried asking you. You didn't
16:15
share that with me. Right. Yeah. You want to be if you're being pursued for that information, you want to be honest without defaming.
16:22
Yeah. Right. You're doing your best to pull the emotion out of it and look at it objectively and say these were their
16:29
strengths. These were their weaknesses. And the weaknesses ultimately were things that we just couldn't deal with.
16:35
those weaknesses may be just fine in your practice. I don't know what your environment is. And so to me, when
16:42
you're on the pursuit side of that information, we have to kind of sift through the emotion of it and determine
16:49
the right path forward. Either I'm continuing to move forward with this candidate or based on the logical
16:55
information that I received from that reference check, I did I'm not going to move forward with the candidate. Um, so
17:01
that's to me I love that information and it's worth the pursuit of that
17:07
information. It's messy when it's somebody in town. Um, and I'm going to
17:13
flip to the other side of the coin now. When they're this is the I so I told you
17:19
I think about it from the practice owner side and the employee side. when the employee is applying and their current
17:28
boss does not know that they're looking, which is how most people start the search. They normally, unless it's for a
17:36
move or something like that, they normally don't tell their boss, "Hey, by the way, just want to give you a friendly heads up that I'm starting to
17:42
look for other jobs." Like, that just doesn't happen because they know that there's a risk they could be without a
17:47
job if they do that. The owner could say, "Forget you. today is your last
17:53
day. Good luck to you. So, they're they're protecting themselves and providing for their family by starting
17:59
to look secretly before they um actually move on.
18:06
Those are the cases where technically we cannot contact. This is kind of like
18:13
HR law. We cannot contact people that they've not given us permission
18:18
to contact. Okay. I did not know that. Yeah. So, they have to be able to say, "Hey,
18:26
you can contact my current employer." So, oftentimes my team will help with
18:32
reference checks because a lot of practice owners are just not good at it. And so, sometimes they'll step in and
18:37
say, "Hey, let's we'll call that office." We always get permission
18:44
from the candidate before contacting. Who knew? Yeah. because they stand to
18:51
lose a lot. If we unintentionally contacted somebody that they didn't want
18:57
us to contact, either because they're currently working there, we could cost them their job and then that's on us. Or
19:04
if we contact somebody that for whatever reason they don't want us contacting,
19:11
we have to respect that. that's a part of their privilege that they respect
19:17
that that we respect that and not contact that part uh particular person. Now having said that I always say the
19:25
dental world is small and behind the scenes conversations may
19:32
happen when you meet when you see people or we're talking about our team members or we're talking about this or that and
19:40
sometimes those things organically just come up in the conversation. We didn't actively pursue it, but we're we happen
19:46
to be talking about it. And so, we can't protect all of that or prevent all of
19:51
that from happening. But as far as us as the person, the hiring office pursuing
19:59
somebody that we don't have permission to pursue, technically, we are not supposed to do that. That sucks. I mean, again, to me, I'm
20:04
like, the dentist always gets the short end of the stick. Like, I know why. Why are we allowed to not?
20:10
I don't know. I don't know. That's I don't like it. I don't know exactly why I don't like it, but I don't like it.
20:16
Well, because there it's to me it's absolutely two different sides of the coin. It it is it's flipping the coin.
20:23
It's going, okay, from and like I said, I have to think of it from both sides because I really value that information
20:29
from a consulting standpoint for my clients. It's very beneficial information, but at the same time, we
20:36
have to think about it from the employee standpoint. And if their boss was notified that they were looking for work
20:43
and their boss didn't know that, it could cause severe damage to their their
20:48
employment, their opportunities. But what about my opportunity? I'm trying to find a good employee. How can
20:53
I do that? Like, where are my rights in this? I know that sucks. I think that's why it's bothering me. Like, I can't do my due
21:00
diligence. Yeah. And I got to end up with a lemon because you're allowed to protect yourself, but I'm not allowed to gather information.
21:06
Yeah. I'm just stuck with what I'm stuck with. I know. Now, that's where we supplement.
21:12
Can I pretend like I didn't know this? Like, could we take this segment of the podcast out? On second thought, erase this episode.
21:19
It's done. H. [Music] I don't like this. Can we take it the
21:25
last two minutes of this podcast and pretend like you didn't say that? And again, this is where we've got our
21:35
reference checks, okay, that are a part of our hiring
21:40
process. We do reference checks. This is why people avoid them, by the way, because there is yellow tape. But let's
21:48
just say, so you've got a candidate that you're interested in. You're going to do
21:54
your due diligence and check the reference references that they gave you. So, you always ask.
21:59
Well, I think that's the reason why a lot of us don't reference reference check because they gave us the references. Now, who who are who's going
22:06
to be stupid enough to say these are the last three people that fired me? You know what I mean? They're going to find good references and I'm going to get
22:12
basic information and I'm like that's a waste of my time. Like, move on. But it's the act of asking for those
22:19
references and seeing what they give you. That's true. if the last three employers were left off and they tell you in week
22:28
so like when my lovely assistants will step in and and support with this they'll ask for references and let's say
22:34
they list employee employers from like 8 and 10 years ago
22:40
my assistants will go hey what about this one and this one oh yeah please
22:46
don't contact those do you know that we immediately eliminate
22:52
as a candidate. We don't care how well they interviewed in the process. That is
22:57
a number one red flag. So just by asking for the professional references, we're
23:04
illuminated to the fact that the last three places of employment did not end well. Bye-bye. You're gone. Not worth
23:11
it. Yeah, I see that. That that's clever. So, it's just reading through the lines
23:17
and trying to figure out, okay, what is this person telling us or not telling us about their references?
23:23
Sometimes when we ask for references, they'll say the candidate will say, "Oh,
23:28
please contact this one and this one." And it might be like the last two before their current one. So, of course, my
23:33
assistant will say, "Does your is your current one available, you know, to be
23:38
reference track checked?" They don't know that I'm looking right now, blah blah blah. and will get additional
23:44
information as to why they're not telling their boss that they're currently looking. So, even just that is
23:50
helpful information. So, what if um and I know the answer to this, but I just want to talk about it because I want to hear what you have to
23:56
say on it. Like, say what if what if they said that and I'm like, wait a minute, that's my friend.
24:02
What? I know. I mean, I want to go tell my friend that this person's applying, but you're saying legally I cannot.
24:09
Correct. So, it's almost like one of those things. I
24:14
mean, not legal wise, but would you tell your friend that you saw her husband at the bar with somebody else? Like, why?
24:19
What do I do? Do I tell you? Do I not tell you? Mhm. And this is where So, we've got It's
24:27
murky waters. It's murky waters because we know what we need to do to uphold the
24:34
regulations that are in place. Um, but I will tell you that
24:40
there are plenty of times that buddies get together and it that information
24:45
comes up just in conversation. Now, technically, we're not supposed to do that, but
24:53
it happens often and it's not intentional. It's not like they're pursuing sharing that information, but
25:00
it comes up. And again, I think that's part of the risk that employees run with
25:05
leaving their job and starting to apply the dental world is small. It does make
25:12
word word gets around that they're looking for a job. Well, and so the situation I found
25:18
myself in here where we're hiring on a new associate who applied for the position, whatever, and it turns out his
25:24
employer didn't know he was leaving. And it does make me pause on him. Yeah. to go, "Wait a minute. Your
25:30
contract ends at the end of August, and you want to move to Dallas in September, which means you've given this
25:37
lady no runway of knowing." Yeah. And you've been an associate in her
25:42
practice for 2 years. Is that what you're going to do to me? Right. So, it does make you think about it from
25:48
that end. Now, I don't know if maybe he had given her some clues or not or what,
25:53
but at least to me, it sounded like she didn't know that he would be leaving. and it does make me pause. Do I really
26:00
want to hire somebody that's just going to walk out on me like that? Right. Um so I think that was one thing that
26:06
made me bring this topic up. I think the other one is of course now that I'm starting this satellite location and um
26:13
anyway it it's just kind of gotten messy because it's a small town and um you
26:18
know I'm not trying to step on toes. I was just given this opportunity. Yeah. that I never thought I would take or would want or would have ever
26:25
encouraged or I would have actually pointed my finger and said, "Sucka, what are you doing over there?" And then now
26:31
here I am. But um you know there are some employees that that or or people
26:38
that are coming on going, "Oh, a new practice. Maybe I want to work for that practice." Right?
26:43
And I think um it's kind of ruffled some feathers that I'm like, "I'm not trying to ruffle feathers. Like I don't know. I
26:49
didn't pursue any people. they've just seen our sign go up. They've come approached us.
26:54
Um, and so it's just that's why this topic was kind of in my mind. And to me, that's where the guilt of it
27:00
all really can't exist. So there's there's the idea of poaching.
27:07
Hey, I went into this office. I I was making my rounds. Stepped into this
27:12
orthodontist. Wow. I loved his receptionist. She was remarkable. I would love to have
27:20
her in my practice. And now we're actively pursuing that person that we
27:25
just stepped in and met. That is poaching. That is very different than I put up a
27:33
job post and that receptionist from the orthodontist office applies
27:38
to my office. I interview her, thinks she's wonderful,
27:44
blah blah blah. Those to me are two very different scenarios.
27:49
It is not the person that's trying to hire. It is not his or her fault that the orthodontic receptionist is
27:56
looking. They did nothing. But what if the orthodontist thinks that
28:02
you did poach? Yeah. Which absolutely can happen. But I
28:08
think that should be that that should not be our default assumption.
28:15
We live in a employee market that there it is the norm to look for better
28:21
opportunities. I I long gone are the days I miss them
28:27
of man I'm locking in and staying forever. This is my ride or die office and blah blah blah. That that's more of
28:35
an old school mindset to be perfectly honest. it in this younger generation.
28:40
We're almost a little bit ADD and we're like, "Hey, yeah, got my fill there. Ready to move on. Ready to move on.
28:46
Ready to move on." So, grass is always greener. Perpetually greener. It's always greener. Um,
28:53
that is never a more clear statement when you're raising goats, by the way. So, just so you know, it's extra clear.
29:00
U, so the the assumption should not be that. So,
29:07
let's say that you've got an employee that's like, "Oh, yeah. I'm going to go work for the office down the street." I
29:14
would caution you, don't assume that that person down the street pursued this person. Your person applied. For
29:20
whatever reason, they thought the grass was going to be greener over at that office. They applied. It's a good
29:27
candidate. You can't blame the person for looking at a good candidate and wanting to hire them. And if they have
29:34
an offer that's better, you lost them. You lost your employee.
29:39
You So, you need to re-evaluate. Why couldn't I keep this employee? Was there anything that I could have done
29:44
differently to keep this employee? Either from an environment, culture standpoint, pay standpoint,
29:50
I lost them for some reason. So, rather than getting all pissy at your your colleague down the street that that was
29:57
able to get this client, you should look at what do they have? What do they offer that's better that my employee was
30:03
willing to go down the street and work for them? So now corporates will poach the heck out
30:09
of people. They're still still going on. That is okay. Yeah. They're still actively pursuing
30:15
people. So yes, corporate with very little ethics and morals, they will poke anybody and everybody that
30:22
breathes. So that sure get mad at them. But the private practice, it is rare
30:29
that somebody's like going around looking for somebody to steal. And we can't call it stealing
30:36
if the person applied for the job. If we just put up an opportunity and somebody
30:42
came a knocking, it's not our fault that they came a knocking.
30:49
If it wasn't going to be our job post, it was going to be some other job post that they responded to. So, that to me
30:54
is not stealing an employee. Um, now I
30:59
get it if that employee and I've had this lots of times where a client of
31:04
mine that the employee that is applying like they know the doctor like they go
31:11
out to eat with this doctor that it's their friend and again that is going to be a personal decision. Do you want that
31:18
to is that going to impact your friendship? Okay. then you may want to avoid it. You
31:24
may because I think I feel like when for my generation that was kind of the unwritten rule. You work for the other
31:29
doc, I'm not ever hiring you ever. Yeah. And then co comes along and this
31:35
generation comes along and it's like you know what like the who who can I hire then?
31:43
Yeah. Um, so I think things have changed in that regard. And um, yeah, it can get
31:49
messy and it can get all drama. Oh man, dental drama.
31:56
This is the meat of dental drama. Yeah. Wife swap, assistant swap. I mean,
32:02
like, it just gets Doctor swap.
32:08
Uh, well, I learned something. I didn't know about all this HR stuff. Wish I didn't
32:13
know it. Um, but I mean is I wish I had a magic wand where I could just say forget it. Just
32:21
keep my head buried in the sand. That's why I like it down there. But I do think it's good for for at
32:27
least dental professionals to know. First of all, this is to me applicable to both the practice owner and the
32:33
employee. employee, you should know once that resume goes out. Word travels.
32:43
And that doesn't mean don't look. If you feel like you need to move on to grow and accelerate your career, please do
32:50
so. But that comes with risk. It does come with risk. Um you you just can't
32:56
protect all talk from happening. And then for the practice owner,
33:02
to me, as messy as it sounds to check references, you check the references.
33:07
Um, but you protect the employee in that reference check
33:12
process by pursuing the references that they have provided. Um, and then the chatter happens as it
33:21
happens. All right. Well, thank you, man. So, man, fun drama drama drama drama.
33:29
Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone, but we
33:36
also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your practice.
33:42
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