When You Suspect an Employee is Leaving

After last week’s episode on stealing employees, Dr. Kuba and Bethany took the time to flip the coin. What if the “word on the street” gets to you and you find out that one of your employees is looking to leave? What do you do? Fight to keep them? Preemptively fire them? Do you resign to the fact that they are gone and begin to build a replacement plan? All of these questions and more are covered in this week’s episode. Listen as Dr. Kuba and Bethany discuss various options to consider when you hear that an employee might be leaving.  

Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

 How to Tackle Uncomfortable Conversations with Employees

Determining the Worth of Employees 

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then
0:09
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba
0:14
as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama.
0:22
Let's get started. Okay, I'm going to jump right in because last time we talked about um employees and blah blah
0:30
blah, like all of that. But then I got to thinking about and going, hold on a minute here.
0:36
I want to know like if some cuz we we were talking about like
0:42
after we quit recording, we were talking about how the chatter like how the chatter gets around and like if an
0:48
employee is like, "You contacted my last boss and I told you you couldn't do that." And I'm like, I didn't contact
0:53
your last boss. I heard it through whatever. Yes. So, I think that was your ending note if if remind me if I'm correct. Like that's
1:00
what you were like, employees be careful because if you're chattering, you say it to one person, but maybe you
1:05
listed um Mary from your last office, the manager from your last office. Maybe you listed her as a reference and now
1:11
I'm calling Mary and Mary knows Betty's boss at her current office. And
1:18
so now she's like, "Hey, did you know that Mary applied to Kuba's office?" It's like you just never know the word
1:23
gets around. You talk to your your reps that come in the office say hey I'm looking for a great office blah blah blah where the once again the dental
1:31
community small people that you tell that you're looking for a job or
1:36
references that you like they're going words it's going to get around. So then
1:41
I got to thinking and I was like, "Okay, so if somebody contacted me, say my supply rep came and said, hey, did you
1:48
know that on your office applied for Dr. Smith up the street?" Like if somehow that reaches my ears.
1:54
Yeah. And I got to thinking, what would I do with that information? Like if I had no idea that Susie, what did I just call
2:00
her? Are we calling her Susie in my office? Let's go. We'll stick with Susie. Uh Sally's the front, right? Sweet
2:05
Sally. Sweet Sally. Okay. This is salty Susie. No. Now she's salty because she's leaving me.
2:11
She's looking to leave. She's looking to leave. And I had no clue. And now I know. Suzy.
2:19
[Laughter] Okay. Suzy. Salty Susie.
2:24
Salty Suzy. Um. No. No. I'm the salty one, but Okay. So,
2:30
uh, sour. Sour. Sour. Well, no. Now I'm sour, too. I'm salty and sour.
2:37
Um, greener pastures, Gabby. Um, so she's
2:43
Lookie Lulu. Um, okay. Sorry. Uh, so if I'm finding out that Suzy, I found out
2:51
through my rep today that Susie, my lead RDA, has applied for Dr. Smith down the street. And I had no idea,
2:57
right? I'm like, I think I would be salty and sour. I would be. And I'd be like, what the hell
3:04
is going on? What's your deal, Susie? Would I uh
3:10
what would you do with that information? What would I do with that information? Would I confront her? And I think just
3:15
me being sensitive Sally is going, "Um, man, I've fallen short that Susie wants
3:23
to leave." Yeah. And I think my walls would go up and be like, "You're looking. So, you were
3:28
going to what? Give me a twoe notice." Yeah. that you're going to do me after you've been here and after I've just taken you on this, you know, uh, team
3:37
building to the spa and after we've done this and this, like, that's how you're going to do me. You are looking for
3:42
what, a buck more an hour. That is what this relationship means to you. So, I would be very, just knowing myself, I
3:49
would take that very personally. Yeah. And it would be it's a rejection.
3:54
Yeah. And I don't think I would deal with that very well. I think for me from that point forward, Susie's dead to me.
4:01
Like, bye-bye Susie. Um, so I think but I think I would have
4:06
a hard time and I don't think I'd ever trust again that clearly there's something here that now it's different
4:12
if I knew there were Susie and I are not getting along. I've had to pull in Susie three times and she knows we've written
4:19
her up. It would still hurt my feelings because to me it's like I'm giving my all to make this work and giving you
4:25
chance after chance. because that's what we do. We don't just fire off the bat. We have given chance
4:30
after chance after chance and repurpose and refind a different seat on the bus and do this and like we have reached the
4:35
limit now. Um, so I think for me that would still grossly hurt my feelings
4:40
that but I would be more open to going okay well I guess it's a good thing seen
4:46
the writing on the wall and is she's being smart and she's trying to find something before I have to fire her and
4:52
maybe I should thank Susie for not putting me in the position of having to fire her and she's going to leave. Right? But I think it would be multiple
4:58
days of me mentally putting that to bed. Right? But if it
5:03
was the initial scenario I was talking about where I had no idea that Susie was about to leave, I think I would be very
5:08
tempted to just ask Susie to leave right away. Yeah. Shooting myself in the foot, making a
5:13
very emotional decision. Um, so
5:19
I guess my question to you is, and you you seem to indicate that you have seen these get very messy,
5:25
and I was like, I want to know, can you share drama? That's why we all tune in like what drama is there? What have
5:30
people gone through? So, um, can you share with us and and and would you say more docs tend to be like me that are
5:37
like, okay, my guards up. Get the hell out of here, Suz. Or are they like, you know, like fight for her? Is this a good
5:44
reality check for me to go, you know what, maybe I have been putting a lot on Susie. Maybe I haven't been showing my gratitude. Maybe I have been like,
5:53
maybe I haven't given raises or upped my game in a while. I've been dealing with other things at home and so I didn't pay
5:59
attention. And and you're right, like maybe Susie has a point. Maybe that's why she's looking. Maybe this is really
6:05
a spotlight on me to up my game as an employer. Or is Susie like an outlier
6:10
and you're never going to be happy and off you go? Like, so all of those things I guess I'm kind of asking you, what do
6:17
you tend to see? How do people tend to react? What do you advise us to do should we be on the receiving end of
6:22
this information that we talked about last episode? Yeah. Yeah. this. I'm so glad that we're
6:28
leading to a part two on this conversation because I've seen many of my clients be in the situation of
6:33
discovering that one of their employees is looking elsewhere
6:39
and em an emotional reaction is normal, right? There is a rejection component
6:46
that you're like, am I not good enough? Why in the heck are you looking? Um, so I think give yourself the time to get
6:52
through the emotions, but then there needs to be a logical evaluation of the
6:57
situation. So at the risk of sounding too much like a consultant, I'm always
7:04
saying that human capital, our employees are the
7:09
valuable aspect of a practice. Technology comes and goes, software
7:15
comes and goes, patients come and go. It's our team that really is like make
7:23
or break for practices. So, if we receive word that Salty Susie is looking
7:29
elsewhere, but Salty Susie is actually a really valuable employee on our team and
7:35
we would be really sad to see her go. Um, we would have a void if she left
7:42
that would be difficult to fill. Then we move into fight mode. We're like, we've
7:49
got to figure out why Salty Suzie is looking elsewhere first and foremost. So, we can't So, once we move through
7:55
the the rejection emotions, then we go, do we need Susie on the team? Yes, it
8:03
comes to yes, we need Susie on the team. Then, we can't assume why Suz's looking.
8:11
We have to get clarity on what exactly is causing Susie to look elsewhere. If
8:18
Susie is, if we assume Suz's looking just for more pay and all of a sudden
8:23
we're throwing these pay increases at Susie, we could have missed the mark. That may not be why Suz's looking. What
8:30
if, and I had this scenario where a client of mine got word that his
8:35
valuable RDA was looking elsewhere, he was like, "Oh my gosh, I I thought I
8:41
was paying her well, but I'm I'm just going to up her pay." which he kind of did all this and then told me about it
8:48
later. And turns out Suz's child care situation had changed. Her the
8:55
afterchool program or something had gotten dismantled or they were only accepting a few people and he had like a
9:03
9 to6 work schedule. She was having to reorient her entire child care situation
9:12
and couldn't find something that kept kids until 6:30. She was like, "This is
9:17
I don't know how else to reconcile this." She was moving for a very practical. She was looking due to a very
9:23
practical situation. She wasn't unhappy. It had nothing to do with pay. She was
9:29
in a crisis of her own where she was having to put pieces back together and was like, I'm going to have to look for
9:36
another job. Had not turned in her notice, just had looked at a few offices that had hours that would be conducive
9:42
to this new child care situation. Put in her application there. Word got back to him that she had put in an application
9:48
there. So, he's about to run at her or he did run at her with more money to try
9:54
to keep her. It wasn't a money issue. It was a logistic issue. So, we can't just
10:00
assume the reason that somebody else is looking, which is where it gets uncomfortable. Well, I know we've had
10:05
some episodes like called uncomfortable conversations, but never one about this. The most uncomfortable conversation that
10:12
you can have is, "Hey, Susie, words kind of made it to me that you're looking. Can we please have a
10:19
conversation about that?" Talk about awkward because you don't know what you're going to hear. Yeah. in that conversation and you have
10:26
to be able to have purged those negative emotions, those rejection emotions before you've stepped into that
10:32
conversation to come up with all the scenarios that Susie might be in that
10:38
she would even be willing to look. Which is a good point for why my gut reaction
10:43
is wrong. Yeah. Um because it's full of emotion. But if I had just written her off
10:49
Yeah. because I'm feeling rejected and hurt. Although it still begs the question, why wouldn't she come to me with that
10:56
information to see if I could do anything? But maybe from her side, she's like, I didn't want to burden you with that or I didn't want you to have to
11:01
make special accommodations for me or whatever. But which was the case with this one that I'm telling you about.
11:06
Yeah. She thought it would be too hard on the team on the docking for her to have an
11:11
exception. She was like, that's not fair for me to ask for that exception and to put my owner doc in a position that then
11:18
other people might ask for that same exception. So, it was actually very noble. It was a noble reason to
11:24
which is why we want to keep Susie to begin with.
11:30
She's not salty anymore now. We love you, Suz. Yeah. Sweet Suz. Yes.
11:38
Um, so to me, we have to confront it. If we know we want to keep Suzie,
11:45
then we've got to be able to have a conversation where where we just honestly say, "Hey, word's gotten back
11:51
to me that you're looking. I just want to be able to talk with you about it and tell me what's prompting you to look elsewhere. I want you to be honest with
11:58
me and and tell me everything." And then you then you know the facts like can I
12:03
solve any of these things or are they unsolvable? Maybe for this on he can't
12:09
like he knows that he's had three other assistants that asked to leave at 5:30
12:15
and he told them all no. And Susie is now telling him the only reason that um
12:20
I can ultimately um that I'm looking for other jobs is because I need to leave at
12:27
5:30. And so he says, "Yeah, I can't accommodate that." So it could absolutely be something um related to
12:34
that that you just can't you can't fix it. You can't make it right for Susie. Can I put you on the spot here? I think
12:40
you need to make a playbook item for this. Yep. Like how to have these conversations and
12:45
what kind of things to ask. And frankly, even like um when we were talking in the last episode
12:50
about uh um questions you can and can't ask.
12:56
Yeah. Or like what should you ask when you call a reference? It's like that to me is one of the most awkward conversations
13:02
where I'm just like, "Hi, Mary put you down as a I'm a you know, I
13:07
just like mutter my way through that and hope the person understands what I'm trying to say." And yes,
13:12
um and and then me too going um you know, cuz I can't ever remember what I'm allowed to ask or not ask. And so I'm
13:18
just like, "Well, Mary applied for a job. She listed you as a reference."
13:23
Pause. You know, I'm like hoping the other person like Mary told the other person, they're like, "Oh, yeah. I love
13:28
Mary." Blah blah blah. But then if they're like, "Uh-huh." And I'm like, "Um,
13:34
what was I supposed to ask and not ask? What's going to get me in trouble here?" Can Kenya, what are you willing to share
13:39
about Mary? I So maybe if you could do that in the playbook. Oh my gosh, I love that.
13:44
And if some of you don't know what I'm talking about when I say play, shame on you. it is. You are one of the few uh
13:49
randos who have not signed up for a subscription because you know in the subscription
13:55
uh the tier 2 subscription I guess that um and we're getting fantastic feedback.
14:01
So I'm I'm excited about that. But basically you get a a newsletter, a
14:06
digest, whatever you want to call it, that has um resources. And so we call
14:12
them our playbook tips. And there's always three in every month's digest
14:18
that gives you the howto's and it's got like literally like you could print it off and say, "Okay, I'm going to use
14:23
this print off to ask these questions." So, um anyway, can you I'm going to test you with that. I just gave you homework.
14:29
Look at that. Look at that, Missy. I wrote both of them down. the professional reference check and if you
14:35
figure out that an employee is looking like what are some how do you navigate
14:40
that conversation and or if there any other random HR tips like you just like I discovered in the
14:46
last um podcast about like how we can't we have to get permission to ask which I
14:52
just think is ludicrous. I don't like it but um I guess it is what it is.
14:57
Yeah. Uh, but if there's any other like things that you see a lot of us doing that we're like, I had no idea. I don't
15:03
know if that comes up or not, but if you can think of things like that, maybe that can be another Yeah. HR,
15:10
which nobody really wants. I think most of us want to bury our head in the sand on, but but they are important. Yeah, we could get ourselves in trouble.
15:16
Yeah. Um, okay, back to again then. So, we were talking about how this one who
15:23
childcare issues and then he said to her ultimately he did decide it was
15:28
something as much as he loved Susie, he knew if he made an exception for Suzy,
15:34
he had already had other RDAs that were asking to leave early. So he was either looking at change his practice hours
15:42
because all of my RDAs are struggling to get child care is not running as late as
15:48
it used to run or I just have to let Suzie go. Um so it was a good evaluation
15:56
point for him. Uh ultimately Susie did move on um from his practice because
16:02
when he looked at the production of those last couple hours of the day, he was like, "It'd be a big risk to my
16:09
practice, you know, to to lose that or to change that." So anyway, but the
16:15
conversation was helpful cuz all he did was he just gave her a raise. By the way, just without ask, you know, she
16:22
didn't ask for anything. He was like, "Hey, by the way, Susie, you got an extra dollar an hour, you know, congrats, blah blah." because that was
16:27
just his like the shot in the dark. It's got to be money. Hope it sticks. Hope she hope she
16:32
sticks. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And then when he told me about it, I came in and sat with Susie and talked
16:38
with Susie. I was like, "Hey, word on the street is you're you're looking." And this is the information I got from
16:43
Susie, which was the actual real reason um that she was looking. It ended up
16:49
working out really well because Susie was looking at places in town
16:55
and he because of the conversation that I was able to have with Susie, I was
17:01
able to tell him the reasons. He was given a chance to think through is there anything that I can do to solve this
17:06
situation. He realized he couldn't. And then essentially Susie had his blessing,
17:12
right? It's it's it was an amicable ending because he understood that he
17:18
couldn't do anything to help her. He was able to give a good reference for her. So, it really did turn out to be a
17:25
decent situation despite the fact that he lost Susie. It was he knew he couldn't solve. Okay, give me a messy one then. I want a
17:31
drama one that did not end well. Like, so well, I think the drama ones are when you don't want to keep the person. Well,
17:38
or what I was thinking, and you tell me if this happens, I would imagine it
17:44
happens relatively frequently, but it's somebody who comes in, well, I'm worth this, I need this raise,
17:51
and doctor's like, uh, I don't think so. Cuz to me, those are super messy. So
17:56
then, Yep. Do you have a couple of examples? So, of the one you just said and of maybe if this one, you're nodding your head and
18:02
you've got that grin on your face. You can think of several. Go ahead. Give us some meaty ones. So, one that stands out as memorable is
18:10
actually um a hygienist that um I So, let me just say this to our
18:18
employees that listen. I love when they bring their rests to the practice owner
18:28
or to me, you know, if I'm in with a practice because to me, we have a chance then of having a very open conversation.
18:36
And this is going to sound super judgy of me, but I think it's weasly and wimpy
18:43
to just put in your notice and go somewhere else. If you think there's a way of navigating
18:49
good change in your practice for something that you're wanting or something that you're needing to me have
18:54
the conversation but I think that is so awkward for most people and I agree from your side where it could seem weasly but I think the
19:01
majority of people in any field in any job typically tend to go I'm not going to
19:07
have that conversation. they should know my worth and if they don't see my worth,
19:13
I'm going to uh move along and find what I can find elsewhere. And with the job
19:18
market the way it is, you can Yeah. Um so I think it really it really speaks to the employee that's like, but I
19:26
really don't want to go anywhere. And I think that's why I have the reaction that I have. If I'm hearing about it,
19:31
that tells me I take it as you if you wanted to stay here, you
19:38
would find a way to approach me because I do feel like I'm pretty approachable or they could approach you. And so if
19:43
you've still kind of gone around us, that to me says you don't really value this position that much and or you think
19:50
any other place can be like this or better or they're so conflict averse that they
19:57
literally just cannot bring themselves to do it. That's what I see in a lot of situations is they are so scared of that
20:04
conflict or that their rejection like oh crap now I've made my my desires known
20:10
and now that doctor knows and what if they reject me and then I'm out on my
20:16
heels without a job or if you're coming in and you're asking for a $2 an hour
20:21
raise and doctor says no. Are you going to be like, "Okay, well, it was worth asking." Or are you like,
20:29
"Oh my god, now this doctor doesn't see my worth and value. Why am I here? Maybe
20:34
I should be looking." So, I I think uh all of that there it's all feelings.
20:40
It is. So, I'll tell you one of my favorite conversations and then a
20:46
conversation that I had recently both with employees that were bringing
20:51
concerns I I don't want to use the word demands. There's there got to be a better word
20:57
for desires. Maybe requests. Requests. Yeah. You know, so both of these were really
21:05
interesting conversations. So, one was a hygienist that is in a practice that the pay
21:12
structure is very different for hygienist. So, it's more of a salary type position. There's great bonus
21:18
program in place. And uh anyway, one of the better setups for employees,
21:28
it's it's a privately owned practice, but for me, the way that they're paid is more corporate in nature. Um so she came
21:38
and said, "Hey, I want to meet with me um regarding pay."
21:44
Um she had done she had set up a poll
21:51
on a social media group. She had set up an anonymous poll where she had data
21:58
from it was like 50 or 60 different hygienists from around the metroplex. So
22:04
this was in the DFW de Metroplex on hourly pay bonus yes or no paid holidays
22:11
paid PTO. So it was it was a salary evaluation
22:17
that she jerk that she had done. I don't like her. I was like, "Oh my gosh." I was like, "I
22:24
already love this lady and now I like stirring the pot for my colleagues around the Metroplex. I don't like you
22:31
and I hope you're not a listener cuz I don't know who you are but I just said I didn't like you."
22:36
We're so different. I'm like respect. I love it. data. You're not bringing
22:42
feelings to me in this conversation. You're bringing data. I know. Cuz now every other hygienist, 50 hygienists are across the metroplex
22:48
are going, "Do I do I match up or do I need to leave my office right now? I
22:54
don't like her. You're a potter, honey." What's cool about this though is she
23:00
came prepared to the conversation and I came prepared to the conversation cuz
23:05
she had said, "This is going to be about finances. is, you know, I want I've I've got some data that I want to go over
23:11
with you. I had not seen the data. I didn't ask for the data ahead of time
23:17
cuz you had your own data because I had my own data and I was like, I can't wait to go over this. So,
23:23
anyway, she brought we entered the conversation. I was like, hey, talk with me about what you've been thinking
23:29
about. She was like, financially, obviously, I work to provide for my family. Um, I've been doing some
23:36
research. It's hard to evaluate because all of these hygienists are paid hourly.
23:42
Nobody is is paid salary like we are. I'm like, "Yes, I know." And so she had
23:47
put all the data down as she pulled it up in front of me. I was able to kind of scan and see, you know, what the total
23:53
package was and everything. Um, and she was like, "I just kind of want to see
23:58
I it doesn't it feels like based on my math regarding what I get paid, I'm
24:05
seeing my hourly be about this and blah blah blah." Right? So, she felt like
24:11
based on the data she had obtained that it wasn't she needed more. She was being
24:18
not compensated. This is why she's having this conversation. Lookie here. I've got all the data right here that
24:23
shows everybody else in the metroplex is making more than I am. And I don't know how you consultant didn't know that. But
24:29
let me point it out to you. I've done my research. Here it is.
24:34
I mean something along the lines of that without the tone. But yes. So, I was able I had already done we use
24:42
um a compensation worksheet that your planner actually created and
24:47
that's also available in another um actually I haven't made that one available.
24:53
Oh, but okay. But you've got the compensation uh review
24:58
how you at least do the math of it. in a playbook item in a previous digest
25:04
which now for people who didn't subscribe earlier on can go back and purchase
25:09
on the hub on the hub they can go back and purchase so yes that how you do the math to come
25:14
up with effective hourly it is on it is detailed out and you can do the math so
25:20
I had done the math um for this particular lady and had extrapolated you
25:26
know her salary plus the bonuses plus this particular office has a very what I
25:32
would call an aggressive uh PTO package for the whole team including the
25:40
hygienist which oftent times the hygienists are excluded from that or theirs is diminished and so uh anyway I
25:47
had done the math to come up with her effective hourly and I was able to show her by the way here's your effective
25:54
hourly let's compare it to your spreadsheet cuz she had the spreadsheet organized from lowest hourly to highest
26:01
hourly. I'm sure she did. And she was the highest hourly. So I said, "Oh, isn't this
26:07
exciting?" When we do the math and actually pull the math the correct way from an hourly standpoint, look, you
26:14
beat everybody on the list. And oh, by the way, if you were to do this, do this
26:22
math, their hourly on your spreadsheet times the hours that they work, it
26:28
equals this annual pay. By the way, you're projected this year to be at this
26:33
annual pay. Let's do the math. Look, you're beating all of them. You're out
26:39
of the 50 that you pulled, you're the highest, babe. Congratulations.
26:45
It was such a cool conversation because she walked away actually feeling good. She did not know she had not done the
26:51
she had done the math on the data but she didn't know how it had extrapolated into her hourly and to her annual. So I
26:59
was able to show her in two ways both hourly and annually that she was actually the creme de creme. She was the
27:05
top of the top. And so she left feeling really good about that. Now what if she wasn't? What if she was
27:12
like in the mid20s? Like, yeah, there are people that are getting paid worse than her, but there are people in the metroplex making more than her. What
27:18
would you have advised in that case? So, in that particular case, I would have gone back to that whole
27:24
conversation to doc, do we want to keep this person? Cuz if she's middle of the pack, she can go to 50% of the
27:32
population and make more. May not be much more, but what can we do to make her package born competitive? you want
27:39
to keep her. If you want to keep her. So that's where it comes back to are we keeping her or not. Um so that was one
27:47
conversation employeeled. She pursued the conversation. It was productive and
27:53
she left feeling great about things. Now I'll give you the opposite end of the
27:59
spectrum conversation that I had where the employee said, "Hey, can I steal some time with you today?" Absolutely.
28:06
We sat down and she had been with the practice for about a year. Um,
28:14
basically culturally she was like, I don't fit.
28:19
She's like, I can't put my finger on it. I don't feel like the doctor's satisfied. I feel like there's like
28:25
already really solid social structure in place. She's like, I've really done my
28:31
efforts to try to have a connection with team members to break into the click basically. And
28:36
she hasn't. And she hasn't. Um and she said um
28:42
because of that, I don't think I'm ever going to be valued here to where I can
28:48
grow financially. And after listening to her, I agreed
28:56
with her and I said, I think you've assessed the the
29:01
situation accurately. And as a consultant, I'd love to be able to say that I could change some of those
29:06
things. I don't think I'm going to change that here. And I think you know what you need
29:13
to do. Well, that's awkward for you then. Mhm. But
29:18
I knew that she was accurate. I knew that the doctor
29:25
wasn't She wasn't dissatisfied with her, but she wasn't ple I mean, she wasn't
29:30
like this girl. Yes, she's going places. Let me change some stuff to make her
29:35
feel better in my office. I knew that my client was appropriately staffed. She was overly staffed. Didn't
29:43
necessarily need the employee. I knew that my advice in that scenario was
29:49
probably win-win. I was helping my client because I don't think my client
29:54
was going to be satisfied. I think frustration was going to continue to grow. I knew it wasn't leaving her in a
30:00
predicament of being understaffed. I knew for this young lady that I was talking to, you've accurately identified
30:07
the situation and it's not going to get better. So, I was able to encourage her,
30:14
start looking. And oh, by the way, I am going to let the doctor know that you're looking
30:20
because again, as a consultant, I I can't hide that information. Yeah. And so, they were able to then have a
30:26
conversation after the she and I spoke, the doctor and the person got together.
30:33
They had a mutually respectful conversation like, "Yep, we agree. It's best to part ways. Let's part ways on
30:40
this day. Let's this this will be the end date. That'll give you time to
30:47
interview, find your next job. You'll be able to tell them an accurate date that you can start. It was an amicable
30:53
ending. That all came because of employee pursuing the conversation. So to me, two
31:00
diff two completely different endings. one ended in you you're leaving and one was like hey no no no pay increase
31:07
because you're at the top of the top anyway congrats now you're happy. So to me just the view of those conversations
31:14
are super critical. Now if an employee pursu we come to know
31:20
like that somebody's leaving and we decide that we're not wanting to keep them. That's where it gets really
31:28
awkward because then your emotional reaction of, "Oh, she's quitting on me.
31:34
I'm quitting on her. I'm putting her out on her feet before she can even resign
31:39
because I want her out. Today's her last day." Those are the situations that I really
31:46
would caution practice owners on making emotional decisions because if they're already on their way out and you don't
31:53
want to keep them long term, let them leave. Let them leave. Unless
31:59
you feel like they're causing catastrophic damage to your team or to your patient base or they're making
32:05
massive errors that are a liability risk for you and you need to make a quick
32:10
knee-jerk decision. First of all, I'm like, why haven't you made that decision already? And now you hearing that the person's
32:17
leaving has prompted you to be like, "Okay, now's the time." You It sounds like you should have if they're a detriment to your practice, you should
32:23
have fired them already. But if now you're here and you know looking, let
32:29
them look and let them leave. So, what about cuz I think this happened to a colleague of mine recently where the
32:35
hygienist put in her notice and doc said, "You know what? we don't need you for the rest two weeks. Like, you're
32:41
welcome to go ahead and leave. And I don't know if that was because truly she's like, there's not enough patients on the schedule. Thank god you're
32:47
leaving cuz it's going to be hard for me to pay your salary anyway. Or if it was more of the mindset of, you
32:53
know, I think I can do the hygiene myself and save because if you're leaving anyway,
32:59
why why, you know, you're you're one of the most expensive employees on payroll, so off you go.
33:06
Um, but I think I think they were she was not surprised and she was not unhappy
33:11
that this hygienist was leaving, but then the hygienist gave her two weeks and my friend said, "You know what?
33:19
Today can be your last day." And then the hygienist went apeshit on her. Yeah. Um, so what would you advise
33:26
that? Would you say like I guess would you say what should you do? Should you say, "Yeah, okay. In that
33:32
case, today's your last day." Or I think for me over time again unless the person was a detriment or unless the person
33:39
annoyed the Jesus out of me I think I would say okay um do you want today to
33:44
be your last day or did you want to stay the two weeks like did you because I think sometimes employees are like man
33:50
there's other jobs waiting on me but I got to give you my two weeks and so it could work out in both of your favors and be a win-win.
33:56
Yeah. But I think do you what what do you think about that? It it's very subjective. So to me, I'm
34:04
always in in that case, I'm always thinking about the protection of the practice. And if I do think, let's say
34:10
it's a super negative Nancy that's just been weaving drama over and over and
34:17
over again, is it worth the risk of keeping her on the team when she's
34:22
completely checked out? Probably not in that case. Now, I like to protect the
34:29
practice though in going, hey, you know what? We don't. Let's uh Hey, I get it.
34:35
You're ready to move on to that new practice. Are they ready for you right away? Oh,
34:41
yeah. They would take me tomorrow. Do we want to make this our last day? I mean, I hate for you to have to give out this
34:48
twoe notice when they're ready for you. So, it can be done that way in a mutual partying or if we know that the person's
34:55
leaving and doesn't have their job secured yet, we can first of all always
35:00
get the resignation in writing. If they're leaving and they're telling you, hey, by the way, I'm leaving. Here's my
35:07
last day before you continue the conversation in writing because that
35:13
protects you from unemployment. If the employee is leaving of their own valition, it is not an unemployment
35:19
claim and you need to protect yourself. So don't have any conversations about whether they're staying the two weeks or
35:26
not until you have a resignation in writing. Then after you have the resignation in writing that clearly says
35:32
their departure date, then you can have that conversation. If you know that they're
35:39
moving or they're whatever and they can't start for two weeks, but you don't want them around because of risk to the
35:45
practice or risk to the patients or whatever the case may be. It there needs to be good reason. It can't just be I
35:52
don't feel like looking at her for the two weeks. That's dumb. Please don't be dumb. You're smarter than that. So,
35:58
don't make it emotional. If you feel like there's inherent risk to the practice or the team and you need them
36:04
to go, but the next job is not ready for them, I would say it is worth it to give
36:09
a severance pay at that point because then that the hygienist that went all
36:16
crazy on your your colleague wouldn't have gone crazy if she knew she was going to be off for the next two
36:22
weeks with pay, right? The whole reason is she was freaking out cuz she doesn't she now
36:28
doesn't have pay for two weeks and that's why she and I can see like my colleague I can almost see her reaction
36:33
now and be like you want me to pay this bee after she's made this mess in my
36:38
office and now she's giving me this two week and I've got to be the one to be the bigger man of the high road. Yeah,
36:45
maybe. Yeah. And it sucks, but it's definitely worth the, you know, I'm going to call
36:53
in a board complaint on you. I'm gonna all the restless sleep nights and all that. And what what you just said a
36:59
minute ago, don't be dumb and just make them leave. Like, that would be me. I would be the one who would be dumb and just be like, get the hell out. But, and
37:05
I've done it, you know, the last several years, that's what I've done where I'm just like, God, I can't stand you. I cannot wait to not have to see your face
37:12
again. You know what? You're going to have a lot on your plate to get ready. You I'm sure your new job is going to be
37:18
like the one here where you've got a lot of paperwork and got a lot of stuff to do to transition. I think we'll be good
37:23
without you. I'm going to pay you for those two weeks. And so even if that's just me, you're not going to be a
37:29
detriment in my office, but I don't want to look at your face. Yeah. So then you're still doing it in a very amicable way.
37:36
Yes. And it's it's um one it looks good for if they do happen to file for
37:41
unemployment cuz that nonsense happens too. But this way at least mathematically and blah blah blah it
37:47
looks better and I know all of us trust me I have been there where I am just
37:52
like I cannot believe I am having to pay this again. You've got to be kidding me.
37:58
I will tell you with no hesitation. It is worth every damn penny and it is a
38:04
drop in the bucket of life. Do it and move on. Yes, it's it's
38:10
it's a worthwhile It really is investment. It really is. And again,
38:19
to paint a perspective that we don't have very often.
38:25
LA. It's our sweet new, not sweet new, she's annoying new, you know, $18 per
38:32
hour RDA that is flighty and immature and drama and she's moving on. And we're
38:40
like, great. I'm so excited to not have her in the office. Bye, Felicia. Bye. Bye, Felicia.
38:46
Two weeks of pay. If we're like, "Today's your last day," and she literally can't start for two
38:52
weeks at the new job, that's that is no
38:58
food on the table type situation. Like, they don't have, you know, $1,000 of
39:05
savings prepared to feed their family. I mean, they make $18 an hour. So, I think
39:11
there's also got to be that human side of it that Well, yes, but in my mind, I'm like, I
39:16
didn't ask you to perform this way. I didn't ask you to put in your notice. I didn't like that is not I know on me. But at the end of the day
39:25
at the end of the day, it is not gonna break you. Exactly. Yeah. It's it's it's a way to end amic
39:33
amicably that is not costly to I mean it is costly mentally and Yes. I
39:38
mean you're right. If it's a hygienist especially, we might be talking about a thousand 2,000 bucks. It's not cheap and
39:44
probably 2,000 if they're full time and it makes me want to vomit. Yeah. However, $2,000 in the bucket of your
39:51
practice is worth not having to deal with the aftermath of this person.
39:58
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So, to me, those are that's where most of the drama can come
40:03
in. When you know you don't want to keep the person, you get wind that they're looking and then you're like, "Adios."
40:10
So, either wait knowing that they will find a thing a job and they're going to
40:15
leave. just wait it out or precipitate the conversation and say, "Hey, let's we
40:21
both agree this isn't working well. I want you to have the freedom to interview, to find your next job
40:27
quickly. Let's part ways. Let's do it this date or let's do it tomorrow and
40:32
I'll at least pay you for the next two weeks so you have time to go." So navigate it in a way that's as
40:39
non-emotional as possible, protecting the practice, but also is doing it in a
40:44
way that's not dramafilled at the end. Yuck,
40:50
man. We had two two backto-back drama episodes. Man, is this called managing dental drama or what?
40:57
Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone, but we
41:04
also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your practice.
41:10
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