Male vs. Female Practice Owners

Bethany notices every day the differences between practices led by males and those led by females. While Bethany has avoided doing a podcast on this topic, the impact of gender is simply too strong to ignore. She meets with so many practice owners that are reeling in the aftermath of a gender problem, so she and Dr. Kuba decided to take the plunge today into the murky waters of this subject. Together, they discuss how expectations truly are different for male and female owners, and the reactions of team members most certainly are different. This episode is meant to bring awareness to the impact of gender as well as to encourage female owners/leaders to develop a strategy for leadership that factors in the gender expectations. 

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Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

Working Mom Guilt

Management Took Kit: Office Policy Manual and Performance Reviews

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then
0:09
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba
0:14
as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama.
0:22
Let's get started. Hola. Hello. Hello. Hello. Well, I love
0:28
that I gave you some homework. Um, can I tell everybody what I tasked you
0:33
with? Yes, please do. So, we had I'm trying to think now. Um, it was a doc that you were telling me
0:41
about that. um refer said that he um the
0:48
episode it's been a little while that we talked about firing and how we all fire wrong and this is the order of or the
0:56
protocol of how you should fire and how most of us think like that's not going to work and whatever. Anyway, you had a
1:02
client that was like, "Oh my gosh, what great timing because I'm about to fire Yeah.
1:07
the next day and so this podcast like now I've got a plan or a protocol and it's opposite of what I was going to do.
1:13
So, I'm going to give it a whirl and test it out." And I think I asked you about it the other day. I was like, "Whatever happened with that?" And you
1:20
were like, "No." He said he followed the protocol to a tea and it it was the smoothest firing he's ever had. and it
1:27
was a longtime employee that he had been dreading firing and had delayed it for so long because he was dreading the
1:33
process. And I was like, dude, that makes me feel so good because, you know, when I think about selfishly why we
1:41
podcast to me, again, it's therapy for me because we talk about my family, we
1:46
talk about the staff, we talk about, you know, stupid stuff and that for me is
1:52
therapeutic. Um, but there's a lot of times where I'm like, are we just babbling here? And who who's listening?
1:59
You know, are there three listeners that we had when we first started four years ago? And um, so that's how it is in my
2:05
mind. And you were like, no, it actually worked. And he was like, thank God for the podcast and it's helped me a lot.
2:11
And so um, that that feels really good that it is making an impact. Cuz I know that was
2:16
your goal. Not that it wasn't my goal, but it was that was your goal of starting this. And my goal was like, sure, yeah, if it helps anybody, great.
2:22
I'll talk about my, you know, nonsense. Um, but then I thought about another
2:28
colleague that, um, had reached out to me and said, I'd have to go back and look at what it was, but it was something where she was like, "Dude, I
2:34
followed what you said." And so, I tasked you with Mhm.
2:40
Um, and I I guess, you know, you you'll tell us how you're going to do it, but my thought was sending an email blast
2:46
to, you know, all our subscribers, listeners, whatever. And if y'all can like find the find an episode or if it's
2:54
multiple episodes that would be great that you're like, you know what, that tip helped. Yeah. Or this made a difference here or
3:01
whatever. And then if you reply back with that, then I asked you, would you
3:07
be willing to uh give away like, you know, a month free of a subscription?
3:13
Yeah. Um, if people you like a drawing, so people reply back with your this
3:19
episode helped me with this and um and then if you reply back then you get
3:24
entered into a drawing and then you'll get a free whatever it is that you guys come up with and you agreed to it.
3:30
Yes. So now you will launch it here sooner than later. It's actually we're going to drop it on
3:36
the notes of today's episode. Oh wow. She's already had a chance to figure all that out. Yes. So there will be a section in
3:43
today's episode notes where you can go and click to share your um experience
3:49
whether it was you can just do it in written form. Um she'll have the ability for you to send a voice memo or I think
3:55
it's a texting a voice memo. Um so either way you'll have the ability to give us your feedback because honestly
4:02
those make our day when we get those. We love knowing that something made a difference and we've heard that a lot,
4:09
you know, through these four years, but it just always brightens our day to hear that. Um, but I mean, it's like when we get a good
4:14
review on Google. Yes. We're doing what we're doing because we're doing it. Um, but when a patient
4:20
kind of tells you like, "Hey, man, this and and a lot of times it's things that I wouldn't have even known, right?" Like
4:25
it's like, "Oh, your receptionist did this." And I'm like, "She did? High
4:31
five to her." Or things that I'm just like, "That made your day." like, you know, like I thought it would be this
4:37
that made your day and it had nothing to do with that we did this complimentary or we, you know,
4:43
whatever. Like you caught this other detail that wasn't even on my radar. And that's helpful to me to go, okay, if
4:49
that little thing made a difference to you, maybe it makes a difference to somebody else, too. And we can start
4:54
incorporating that. So, I think that's where a lot of these feedbacks, it's not just to go like, hey, Bethany, look at how great we're doing. It's just it
5:01
helps us keep on track of what is and isn't helpful. For sure. It really does. It guides us
5:06
in the topics we need to tackle or the way in which we need to tackle things. So yeah, we want to hear from our
5:13
subscribers, from our listeners, and we want you guys to be able to be rewarded for taking the time to do that. So
5:18
definitely check the show notes of today's episode and you'll get details on. So then when you send the email
5:24
about the episode like this is what we're talking about today then somewhere on there you're going to have and
5:30
yes not only in the email but also in wherever like you listen through
5:36
Spotify but I'll never look at that. You never look at the show notes from when you click on the episode.
5:42
I skim it. Okay. But so it'll be in both places. We'll have it on the email for sure that goes out.
5:48
Um, not every listener of ours is on our email. So, you can certainly reach out to us again through that same link if
5:55
you're not. How would they get on email? Go to that same link for today um to
6:00
leave your experience or the positive tip that you've taken away and you'll have the ability to contact us and say,
6:05
"Add me to your email list." Um, dude, if you're not on the email list, I know
6:11
you're missing stuff. I know. I didn't realize that was a thing. I just assumed everybody who's listening gets the email.
6:16
No. Okay. So, if you haven't been getting emails, like every every Monday, at
6:21
least that's when I get the email telling me about what the episode's about. It is. Yep. Um, so if you're not getting emails,
6:27
you're missing other stuff, too. So, we've got tons of listeners out there that listen and we don't have their
6:32
contact information. We don't get that just from our podcasting platform. I
6:37
didn't know that. Yeah, I know. So, go right now.
6:44
Okay. I need a had no idea. You had no idea that that world existed.
6:50
I know. So, yeah, that I want to make sure that everybody can access the um section in the show notes, which whether
6:57
it's Spotify, you know, Apple, whatever, there's a little section of a brief summary of the episode and it'll be in
7:04
there. And then those that are on our email list, we'll have it on there as well. I was going to I think it's because it's so tiny.
7:10
Yeah. I'm like, I need to pull out readers to read this thing and I know I'm going to get an email. So, I think that's why I just kind of forgot that,
7:16
you know, it's going to be all in the email. Yeah. Um, okay. So, that's I wanted to u make
7:23
sure to talk about that. Um, but then it worked out with you. It kind of ties in
7:30
with um kind of sort of when I was like, what are we talking about today? Because
7:36
I've been out of town for a little bit now. And so, now I'm back and we're catching up. And
7:43
when I said, "What do you want to talk about today?" Uh, I'll let you say what what you said. But to me, it it again it
7:48
comes back to I think you have this topic idea because of another podcast we
7:54
did and you've had a lot of people say that episode was super helpful. And I was like, okay, even better timing
8:00
that we're asking for uh feedback from episodes so that we can, you know,
8:05
again, stay current and stay fresh. Um, so I'm going to turn it over to you. Can you just so y'all know too, I had a
8:12
a friend um not a friend, my brother-in-law that was in town and and they're staying with us and I was like,
8:17
"Yeah, I'll be gone early, but I'll be back before y'all are awake to go podcast." And he's like, "So, what do
8:22
you have to do for preparation for that?" I'm like, "Nothing. I don't do anything." Like, I literally show up. And Bethy's had to do all the work of
8:28
whatever she's doing, and I just show up and talk. Um so, what I that's what I
8:34
love about this format, right? I don't have to do anything extra. But when we started and I said, "What do you want to talk about?" And just what you said, I
8:40
was like, "Okay, let's stop talking." So, I don't even know all the whole story. I don't know what we're about to talk
8:46
about here. Um because I was like, I like that it's going to be fresh and raw
8:52
and um so again, I I'm going to apologize in advance or maybe not. I
8:57
have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth. Yeah. I have no idea what's going to come out of my mouth cuz I'm re normally
9:02
we're not super prepared. we just kind of band at least know the topic ahead of time, but you don't really even know
9:07
Yeah. what's about to hit you. So, yeah. So, okay, let's do it then. Go ahead. So, you
9:13
I will say that this is a topic that I've avoided putting in podcast form.
9:19
Um, makes me a little bit uncomfortable because I don't know, it's just so
9:24
complex. It's so um cringey. Cringy. Cringy is a good word.
9:29
But I think we have to talk about it. And so I was on a calm.
9:34
Sorry, real quick. Can you remind them about the previous cringey episode? The previous one that I avoided for
9:41
forever was the Mother's Day episode. Um,
9:46
I was nervous about cuz people I I never want to cast judgment on another woman
9:53
or say, "Hey, you're putting too much on yourself, mama." Like, think about it
9:58
from a different perspective. In other words, I don't want to kind of thrust some ideas on people. I feel like
10:04
there's some untouchable categories and motherhood is one of those. Um, but I
10:09
have gotten more positive feedback on that Mother's Day episode. And so,
10:15
and what were you saying? More positive feedback from even your male doctors. even male doctors that were like that was so helpful for me to have that
10:22
perspective of what it's like for a working mom or now I can look at some of the stress that I'm seeing in my team
10:29
members and evaluate it differently. Um many of them have told their team
10:34
members, hey, go and listen to this Mother's Day episode. I think it'll be really helpful for you. Um, which is one
10:41
of my favorite things is to me like that's another reason where this podcast is super helpful. If you can,
10:46
you know, either from colleague to colleague or to one of your team members if you're like, "Hey, listen." Because I've done that with my team, you know,
10:52
hey, listen to this episode because there's a lot that we uncover in this and it'll give you a slightly different
10:58
perspective on things. And um, so the fact that other docs are using the same way is super um,
11:04
super helpful. Well, it's super exciting to me that it really is helpful that not only did you in your own brain go, "Okay, yeah, that's good to know." But
11:10
you thought enough of it to share it because you thought somebody else could learn from it. Like ultimately, that's
11:16
why we're doing this. Yes. Is just to help. Absolutely. To be a support not only to practice owners, but team members as
11:22
well. The whole the whole team. So, this is one of those subject matters that is similar in a way because
11:30
I've been kind of through the years just chalking up all these examples of how
11:35
practice ownership or practice leadership is different from a male
11:40
versus a female. And it's mindblowing to me like gender has always been a part of
11:49
how we filter through the world, how we perceive the world. Like so much of my
11:55
studies in uh one of my programs was gender related. And so I know that it's
12:01
like just in the fabric of our being. But seeing it from a consulting standpoint and knowing the impact that
12:06
it has on the expectations of a female practice owner versus a male f practice
12:12
owner is sometimes mindboggling to me um and frustrating. I I I will say, you
12:20
know, the conversation that I had this weekend angered me. Like I have just been angry about it because this is
12:28
women putting expectations on another woman ju
12:34
simply because she is a female practice owner and it makes me very angry. So So
12:40
before we dive in just hearing that I guess so my personal opinion on it.
12:45
Yeah, we've always known that that that you know staff is going to be one way with women and a different way with men.
12:51
I see it in action. And I've seen it in my own office with the way they are with the associates versus the way they are
12:56
with the with me. Um, and then you could talk some of that up to, well, yeah, but they can do that, you know, they'll do
13:01
that for the associate, but with you because you're the one who pays a paycheck. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I've I also
13:07
feel like, um, you know, and I know this is a very taboo, touchy, especially now,
13:13
but, uh, ethnicity, you know, things like that, um, that I
13:18
that I do think play into a lot of things. But my my thought my question to
13:24
you is I mean at the end of the day who cares from a standpoint of what am I
13:29
going to do about it? Yeah. So to me it's like I could squawk all day long well y'all treat the male doctor this way but you treat me this
13:35
way. It is what it is. What am I doing about it? or, you know, if I was a uh
13:41
Caucasian, blue-eyed, yellow-haired male, I know this exact scenario would
13:48
play out very differently than it does with little old brown me. And I know it would be very different if
13:54
it was me and another little old brown she with an accent. Um, and so people can can turn off now and be like, you
14:01
know, f you. You not, you know, that's not fair. I don't see color. Blah blah blah. Like I we're not trying to make
14:07
this political, but my point is it is what it is. That's my opinion. I'm entitled to it. I know what my
14:13
experiences are and what I've seen. You're entitled to yours. If you're the blonde hair, blue-eyed, like, you know,
14:18
we can we all have our own different experiences. That's not what this is about. I think for me, my point is, what
14:23
am I supposed to do about it? Yeah. And so, we just have to navigate and and go. And I think your point in this
14:30
episode is what I guess is my question. Yeah. So, I would say number one, I
14:36
can't tell you how many times I sit with a newer practice owner that's like, I
14:42
don't understand this. Like, why why is this person mad at me because of da da da da? And so, I think first and
14:48
foremost, we need to bring the elephant into the room and go, okay, no, it is because you're female. And if you
14:54
haven't, if you've wanted to avoid that in your mind that it's not equated, we need to clearly say that there are
15:01
different expectations of female doctors. And when something's not making sense, you're going to have to take a
15:09
minute to go, wait a second, is this simply because there's an expectation. But then, I mean, I would feel like if I
15:15
thought about that all the time, I would be like, it's one of those things that's like, well, you know, it's not fair. poor me,
15:24
you know, and and go the other way to go, oh, I guess where I don't want people to go is fall on that hill.
15:32
Exactly. And not realize that. No, there probably things that you're doing anyway. And it's not that the the problem just
15:39
stops with, well, I'm female and that's that and this person's going to act this way. No, you might still be doing
15:46
the point is not to make it an excuse. The point is to recognize it and go, "Okay, but given that that's the in
15:52
poker, that's the hand I was dealt, am I just going to fold every time or am I going to No, I'm going to try to be
15:58
strategic with the hand that I have." That's exactly right. It's recognizing first that that is a part of the
16:04
equation. And then how do you navigate that successfully on the other time, you
16:10
know, on the other side of it, but also knowing too that the way you navigate it
16:15
unfortunately sometimes depends on the team members that you have as well, which again is part of what's different
16:22
for a male female practice. for a male practice. It's like uh and and I do hope
16:28
our male, you know, practice owners will hear this and will understand and appreciate some of the freedoms that
16:34
come simply because of their maleness. When a male decides the way that he's going to run his practice, for the most
16:41
part, it just runs the way that he he wants it to run. The team falls into line with that
16:47
vision. They really do. Now, they may still push against it or be like, "Hey, doc, you know, we really should do it this way."
16:54
Um, and there can be some collaboration in there depending upon the uh male doctor's personality type. Um, so but
17:03
for the most part there's not a lot of struggle in that process where where
17:08
doctor owner is trying to pull forward and almost like I think of like a you
17:13
know somebody pulling like a big wagon behind them like trying to lug their team along you know. No, it's more of
17:20
like hey guys I'm going in this direction. And I kind of want y'all to go in this direction, too. And team
17:25
members, for the most part, will fall in line behind that dock and walk behind him. Um, potentially with a rogue person
17:33
here and there. I'm not saying that that male doctor is immune to problems, but
17:38
for the most part, there's a natural leadership that takes place with a female
17:45
team members, unbeknownst to them. So, as much as I'm talking to practice owners in this episode, I'm talking to
17:51
team members probably more so in this episode, which is there's this
17:57
underlying assumption that we have that the practice is going to run very
18:03
collaboratively. We're going to be working together to get to our destination. And that in
18:10
working together, there's nobody that's the actual lead. We all have equal. We're all equal.
18:18
Yeah. Especially if all of the women working together, including the practice owner,
18:23
have children. It then immediately becomes we're all in this together. We're all moms supporting
18:30
moms and we're all working for a better life.
18:36
Oo, it is tricky to function in that
18:42
without really blurry lines starting to happen. I can't I I just as I sit here
18:47
and talk I'm like over these 15 years so many times the struggles that I have
18:53
seen have come down to misplaced expectations from team members on that practice owner. And so we've got to
19:01
understand that from the get-go, whether you're day one in your practice or whe whether you're day n I mean a year 19
19:09
that the team members approach a female doc as a collaborative doc. Even if
19:15
she's not particularly collaborative, if she's more of a take charge caleric that's just like this is the way I want
19:22
to do things, then some team members will fall in line behind that and will
19:28
follow. But then usually behind that take charge caleric this is the way I want to do things type female there's a
19:34
lot of disgruntled females because they can't put their finger on it why this doc doesn't meet
19:41
their expectations. They can't really put their finger on it. But what if they really think about it what it boils down
19:47
to is they're expecting this female bonding collaborative type environment
19:52
and they're not getting that from that cleric doc. So
19:57
all that to say gender definitely is a part of it but also the expectations of
20:03
team members are really at play and the female doc has to know that and be aware
20:09
that that is expectation. Now what do you do with that? H how do you navigate
20:15
that? You're like, "Okay, sounds like I can't solve it." Cuz if I just become the take charge caleric type person,
20:21
well then I've got a bunch of team members behind me that are unhappy about that. Yeah. They're like, "Man, she's a
20:27
bitch." Yeah. And I'm like, "He just did the same thing over there." And y'all are like,
20:33
like, what? What is the difference? Y. And so I think for me that's whenever I've encountered that in my mind I'm
20:40
just like okay I know that that most likely is how I'm going to be perceived
20:46
in this situation. I think funny enough that you're saying it um
20:52
I think what I end up doing is going to collaboration. I go into collaboration mode where I'm
20:57
just like okay if I were to just say this is what we're doing then I do get a lot of push back. But if
21:05
I come and say, "Hey guys, this is what I'm thinking about. This is why." Yeah. What do y'all think? And a lot of times,
21:13
I would say most of the time, 95% of the time, I am looking for their feedback. Yeah.
21:18
To keep the harmony, to keep, you know, a and to go, you know, these are smart women. They they know the practice very
21:25
well from different perspectives that I don't get to see. Um, so I do want their
21:30
feedback and I do value it. And and I'm at a point now where I've got team members that have been with me for a long time. So they know the practice.
21:36
They know me. They know our patients. And I do trust that they are going to guide me in the right direction. Yeah.
21:41
New practice maybe not, you know, cuz you don't you guys don't know each other and know all of that. But where I am
21:47
right now, like I know the team that I'm asking for feedback is going to guide me the right way. Yeah. Um, but have I gone through years
21:56
of that where I've gone, okay, I even if it's something that I'm just like, nope, I want my way with this, but I'm gonna
22:02
ask them just for the show of acting like this is a collaboration.
22:07
Yeah, sometimes we're going to do that, too. I would say that's very far few between now, I think, because I rely so much on
22:13
them for their data. But in the past it would be like okay well clearly I have every intention of we are going to be
22:19
working on you know Monday through Thursday in the summer um which we
22:26
normally don't do but we are going to do it in the summer but I'm going to make a show of going hey ladies what do y'all
22:32
think about this hey right and then come around to why we're doing it that way and then hopefully by that
22:39
point because I've thrown out a couple of wise I've got more team members on my side cuz they can see it's not an
22:46
emotional decision. It is a a smart decision. The two or three that you know are just can only think emotionally are
22:53
still going to have a a fit. But I've got some of the key players on my side. Um but all of that like a male doctor
22:59
wouldn't have to do any of that. No. All he would have to say is we're doing Monday through Thursday and everybody would be like even if they're bitching
23:05
to themselves in the break room, they're not going to say it. They're not going to push back. Yeah. They're not going to leave. Like I think
23:11
that's another thing that females we have to worry about is going, "Okay, maybe they're going to accept it now, but then they're going to go look for greener pastures."
23:16
Yeah. Because this doctor doesn't understand how that's going to impact my
23:22
child care. They don't do it to the males, right? They stick around. They make it work. Um
23:28
anyway, and again, that's all my experience. So if you don't like what I just said, that's how I feel about it. Yeah.
23:33
I don't apologize about how I feel. But honestly, it is very prevalent. So
23:38
your feeling on the matter is what I've witnessed in 15 years of consulting is that there's just thing I don't know it
23:47
is a different world and it is what it is. There's no changing it I guess is the the big thing. I don't think we're
23:54
going to um completely solve the fact that gender plays a role in it. Now I
23:59
would challenge our listeners who are team members to really
24:06
pause and think about are the expectations that you're having of your doctor male or female for that reason
24:11
for that matter are they fair because what I have found is our expectations of
24:17
our female doctors are very un unfair. So can you give us some examples here because I'm still kind of going like
24:23
what do you mean like I I only know what I know. I can't imagine it from a male perspective and I only know what I've
24:28
walked through, but you you have 15 years of seeing this from all over the place. Like would you be okay sharing some of the
24:35
conversation you had this weekend or what? Like what what do you mean by this? So for team members that are like no I don't. Yeah. No, I don't.
24:41
Um or you know maybe not with attitude, maybe just like but I really don't. I mean my expectations my expectation. So
24:49
can you shed some light with examples of what? I'm going to give you two different examples cuz I feel like um
24:54
again female owners navigate the I've seen them navigate it in multiple ways trying to solve this this dilemma. So
25:01
I've got one client that I've worked with for a very long time um you know female doceric
25:09
um just she knows what she's doing. She's good at what she does. She's run a very successful practice. Um, she is
25:17
incredibly competitive as far as making a great career place for team members,
25:24
you know, competitive pay, good bonus program, good compensation package, um,
25:30
you know, good environment for the most part, although she is a cleric, so she's
25:35
like, she's got her own life. She says this to me all the time. She's like, I've got my own life. I got my own
25:41
problems. I show up. I'm my best at work. I go home and I'm not talking to
25:46
anybody to messaging anybody, thinking about anybody over the weekend. She just has a very clear line.
25:54
Boundary boundaries. She set good boundaries. She set really good boundaries. Now, she is kind and respectful to her team when
26:01
she's with them. She shows that she cares while she's in the office, but outside of that, she's not right. So,
26:08
there's a very clear line. And so she had a team member um that a hygienist
26:15
that we just couldn't figure out what was going on. She was newer to the team
26:20
and I was like I can't put my finger on it but she seems off you know. So I had a ridiculously long conversation with
26:27
her with this hygienist where she's just talking about how she just doesn't feel super accepted, you know, on the team.
26:34
And it was this long conversation where finally when I drove her to the point I was like what is your point? I don't
26:42
feel liked by the doctor. I was like you don't feel
26:47
liked you know in what way? Like can you give me examples? Because nobody on the team is saying that about my client. I'm
26:53
like this is new information. And basically it boiled down to the conversations that they're having in the
27:00
practice. She wasn't super like feely and engaged. She just kept coming back
27:05
to eye contact. She doesn't make a lot of eye contact with me. And after this was literally like a
27:12
three-hour conversation. I I was very frustrated cuz I'm like, you're telling me you're unhappy in this work
27:18
environment that pays you well, gives you good paytime off, gives you good you're a hygienist, you get good bonus,
27:25
you've you've got a good schedule that's not overworking you, but you're unhappy
27:31
because the doctor doesn't make good eye contact with you and doesn't engage with
27:37
you in such a way that you feel like fluffed up and noticed and important And
27:44
so I straight up told that hygienist, I said, "It sounds like you need to work for a male doctor."
27:50
And she said, "I think you're right." She said, "Because as crazy as it is,"
27:55
and this is out of her mouth. She says, "As crazy as it is, I know I wouldn't have the same expectations of him."
28:03
And she left because she didn't feel liked by the female doctor.
28:09
Mindblowing to me. you would leave a good environment, good pay, good doc, good practice because you
28:17
didn't feel liked. That is the difference between a female practice owner and a and this is again when we
28:24
talk about strategies, what do we do with this? My client strategy is I'm a great doctor when I'm here, a great
28:30
leader, but I am not hanging with these people. I'm I I am
28:36
which is what most males do. Most male doctors don't. Yeah. She runs it very similarly to a
28:43
male doc because her person that's conducive to her personality which I love. She is being who she's being. Take
28:50
it or leave it, come or go. And thankfully she's built a team of people that know how she functions, appreciate
28:56
it, and she's got a great loyal team, especially once that hygienist was gone. So it works. That is a strategy to go,
29:04
okay, I'm going to go in and I'm going to, as awful as this sounds, I'm going to run it like a man. I'm not hanging
29:09
out. I'm not collaborating. I'm not blah blah blah. That is a strategy and it has worked very well for her, but not
29:15
without collateral damage because of this one hygienist. So that's one example that I can think of very clearly
29:21
where that came up in my conversation and I said to that hygienist, you need to work for a man. And she admitted that
29:27
I was right. So then this conversation that I had over the weekend, new
29:33
practice owner, phenomenal lady, like just I won't give all the details, but
29:40
she's just cool, smart, um and really wants to impact women. She has a very um
29:46
big heart for empowering women and um was really excited to own a practice so
29:53
that she could empower the women that she serves in her practice but then also her team. So she started started the
29:59
practice um with some great ladies um just trying to go above and beyond with
30:05
tokens of appreciation and um you know feeding them well and uh you know big
30:12
birthday gifts and oh somebody in your family died I'm sending flowers to the funeral and just really
30:19
not sustainable stuff. Yeah. You get taken advant I have even my children my girls say you do too much
30:27
for your team. Yeah. I've even got my little one now. She said it to me all last week and I was
30:32
like what the hell is this coming from? Cuz her birthday's coming up and she's asking me to order blah blah blah for
30:38
party favors. And I'm like we're still doing that at 12 like party favors. Um
30:44
and she said well you you do stuff for your team. And I was like, "What? What
30:50
does your birthday have to do with my team?" Yeah. And basically, she's like, "Well, I want this stuff,
30:57
but you're telling me no, but you give your team whatever. You're always ordering stuff for your team." She sees
31:03
packages arrive and whatever. And I'm just like, "Oh my god." And so I said it to her. I
31:08
said, "Well, what does me ordering this stuff for you and your friends do for me? I'm already having a party. I'm
31:13
already doing all of this other stuff." I said, "For my team. They're the ones who help me make my business run. And
31:19
ultimately, if my team's happy and they stay and the clients stay happy, I make money.
31:24
Yeah. I'm not making money off of you and your rag tag friends getting the face cream you want to get them. Like that's
31:31
and I hated to make it that way, especially in her impressionable little mind where she's just like, you know, I
31:36
don't want her to think that I only do things to get people to, you know, stay and whatever. But I'm like, it's a you
31:43
can't even equate it. And yet that's what you're trying to do here. you're trying to put that expectation on me
31:48
that I should have to, you know, cater to everybody's needs. But I think to me, my takeaway was
31:54
it's like she thinks that I do all this stuff
31:59
just to because I'm at the mercy of my team and if I don't buy them stuff. And
32:05
I'm like, no, what you're missing is is that I truly value these people who allow me to do what I do. Yeah.
32:11
Do I go overboard sometimes? Has it burned me sometimes? Yes, but ultimately
32:17
the majority of the time I think people feel appreciated and feel seen. So it's like I'm I'm opposite of your
32:23
caleric doctor, but I've still had my own casualties. Yeah. And so with this doc that it's like
32:28
doing all this stuff, I'm like that's not sustainable because you will spoil your team. Yeah.
32:33
And then you'll have to weed through the ones that would stay anyway. Yeah. And not take advantage. And then you're
32:40
always going to have the ones that are going to take advantage. And the minute you can't provide or you didn't live up
32:45
to whatever um because you sent a bouquet for Jenny's grandma, but then
32:51
for your neighbor's husband's grandpa that you were close to, you didn't send
32:56
anything there and all hell's going to break loose. So, it is about expectations and what is this doc setting? I know I interrupted you.
33:02
Sorry. Go ahead. So, she I mean I think that you know hit the nail on the head. I think her intent and
33:08
her heart has been in the right place as I see so many of my other female clients
33:13
doing like they want to show care and love and concern to their um team
33:20
members which I absolutely love but there's something in the team members
33:25
that changes in that process and it go it it does it kind of becomes this
33:32
I don't know I don't know if it's a switch that's always been there that wasn't flipped it's always on or it just
33:38
as that those tokens of appreciation it neutralizes like oh we are all the same
33:44
and maybe even she needs me like I got a little bit of power here which is the
33:51
only thing that I can think of with my particular client is that they just misinterpreted that and thought um
33:59
thought differently. I have been on the receiving end of that so many times and so one could argue I've done it to myself. I have.
34:07
So that then it begs the question as a female owner, do I perpetuate it? Right. And right,
34:13
you know, I've had to learn the hard way multiple times. Well, and I think so, just like my example that I gave with my cleric
34:19
client, I think I view you as a successful female owner very different. You run the practice very differently
34:26
than my uh cleric uh female owner, but it still works. So, there's not just one
34:32
strategy here. I think there's multiple strategies. and the female doc has to find what works for her. But for you
34:39
over the years, it has been that you are very collaborative with your team. It's
34:46
very much a we type feeling. You've created lots of little leaders in the
34:52
office through that that you rely on um and lean on to, you know, represent you
34:57
when you're um not there. And through that process, you have greatly rewarded
35:03
your team. So, it's a very, I always say, you're an exceedingly generous practice owner that rewards your team in
35:11
a variety of ways, not just one way. And so, it is a truly win-win. Like, you're
35:17
winning because the practice is accelerating. Your team feels valued, appreciated, all of that. But in the
35:24
process, you've raised really good collaborative leaders that take
35:29
ownership in that practice as well. So it was so where my cleric doc is like she is for sure the the leader and fall
35:37
in line behind her. You are let's collaborate and there's going to be
35:42
times that you need to make a decision that's unpopular. I would say looking back you don't make
35:48
you don't usually make those decisions though. I mean there there's very few times that you've made a decision that
35:53
at least a few people on the team didn't agree with. So it's almost like you collaborate until there's consensus and
36:01
then but that that's my personality. That's the people pleaser. So um so it's just a
36:07
different path to get there. It's not going to work for everybody. And somebody else on the outside might go it's a stupid way of of going.
36:12
Yeah. But it's worked for me and I'm happy. Like I'm happy when the team's happy. I'm happy. So, and again, I think it's
36:19
been very successful. So, you've got, you know, the practice is doing it great. The team is solid and and in
36:26
place and there's uh so it works. So, to me, those are two different strategies,
36:32
but I think it takes we can't happen stance our way into
36:39
that. I think it takes a female owner doc really thinking about what is my
36:44
strategy here? what is the type of leadership that is going to make me happy? Um, and how can I then facilitate
36:51
a team around that leadership style? And there's got to be boundaries that are
36:56
set within that. So, just because you've created a very collaborative team
37:03
doesn't mean that somebody can go willy-nilly rogue and you're going to be like, "It's okay." No. There's there's
37:10
been plenty of times over the years that we've worked together where you've had to terminate people because they would
37:18
not step in line with what the practice was trying to do. Um, and so you're
37:23
willing to cut people off that aren't a part of the environment. So, just
37:28
because it's collaborative and feels good and it's supportive doesn't mean that there's not hard decisions that you're going to have to make. And so,
37:36
um, I think a female practice owner has got to go, okay, what does make me happy? Like
37:43
the act of appreciation, buying gifts from my team and all that's going to be important because it makes me happy,
37:49
too. Okay, great. Now, how can I build a team that receives that without becoming
37:55
expecting of that? Um, and how do I then step set boundaries that go, hey, I'm
38:01
able to reward you in this way because the practice did this. If the practice does less than this, then those rewards,
38:08
it's not just because I love you and I'm always going to be showering gifts. Like, you have to be fighting for the success of the practice, too. Um, so I
38:15
think there's got to be boundaries that protect the practice owner versus males. I think you think about
38:20
you you get to think about what kind of leader do I want to be and then you get to go be that leader. Mhm. So that's that's the difference.
38:26
It's like, yeah, we each have to figure out what we want, but your yours is
38:32
going to be a lot easier, clearer path because people will fall into line with what you want. You're going to if
38:37
there's 10 employees, you're going to have seven or eight that are going to do what you want and two or three that are going to trickle out versus us. If I'm
38:44
going to find, you know, this is the kind of leader I want to be, I might have two or three that stick around,
38:50
seven or eight that trickle out, and it's going to take me longer to find the people that are going to fall in line
38:55
with my leadership. Even if we both have the same leadership style, it's going to be a different experience.
39:00
And so, night and day difference. Yeah, night and day difference. And so as a
39:05
female, we're going to have to be a lot more strategic and a lot more uh clear
39:12
about what we're okay with and what we're not okay with and then be a lot more intentional with how we carry that
39:18
out. Y um I think the other part of it too is uh having to be a lot more aware. Um
39:25
because if you stick your head in the sand and you just kind of hddydo along or if you make excuses and go, "Oh, it's
39:31
just cuz I'm a female. It doesn't matter. What are you doing about it?" is is the point. Um, and having to uh
39:38
constantly being aware. Most male owners, in my opinion, don't
39:45
have to be aware. They're not aware. They're like, "What do you mean?" I feel like it extends to patients, too.
39:51
Yeah. um like how a patient is going to uh reply, you know, respond to a treatment
39:57
plan or respond to oral hygiene instructions and get their feelings hurt and be like, "You're a for saying
40:03
this, this, this." Like, "How dare you try to tell me whatever?" And males don't have to deal with that. Yeah. Um so I I just again it it's just being
40:11
aware. Yeah. Of it. I I agree. I think awareness, coming up with your strategy, coming up with what
40:18
are my boundaries going to be or what do they need to be? Um, I think it's also
40:26
just really important here to speak for a moment to the team members because,
40:31
um, you know, we watch a lot of nature shows in our family. We watch real life nature, too. But anyway, so we have
40:38
this, uh, there's one show that I watched recently on some type of fish. And this one type of fish can't survive
40:46
without this mega fish that it like swims beside all the time. I don't know. I can't remember the name name of these
40:51
things. But I took away a lesson from it where I was like, "Oh, this little fish
40:57
is dependent for life on this bigger fish." And it goes everywhere. You know,
41:04
this big fish goes and eats the algae off of the big fish or something like that. And I thought to myself, I'm like,
41:13
for our team members, I think what a lot of our team members
41:18
think, and this is me trying to set aside some anxiety and saying this, what
41:25
a lot of our team members think is we are a school of fish swimming
41:30
together. That we we go together, we work together, we move together, it all works
41:37
together. You're not a school of fish. You're not a school of fish. You're that little algae fish on the big fish. And I
41:44
know that's a blow to you. Like, you don't want to think about yourself in that way. You're not a treatment
41:49
coordinator without your big fish. You're not a hygienist without your big fish.
41:56
Wherever the big fish is, I'm not even saying it's your female doc that you're having to wrap your mind around the fact that you are dependent
42:03
upon a doctor, any doctor, wherever you go.
42:10
You don't have a job without a doctor. And you need that dose of humility and
42:17
reality from time to time to realize you're not a school of fish. You are not
42:22
equal to that doctor. You are not better than that doctor. You are not smarter
42:28
than that doctor. You are your life depends on that doctor. And you need to
42:33
have that dose of humility and reality. When you are interfacing with your doctor, when you are talking about your
42:40
doctor, when you're making decisions related to the practice or to the patients, your life depends on that
42:47
doctor. So, you better do right by your doctor because I say this all the time,
42:54
the dental field is a very, very small world and you burn one doctor and word gets around. So, you need to be very
43:02
thankful for the fact that your life is sustained, your livelihood is sustained
43:07
by that doctor. So, that would if you don't like it, then maybe you need to go to a different field. Yeah.
43:12
Now, I also think there are doctors who are like, I'm the mega fish. Agreed.
43:18
So, we've got that whole conundrum and then we've got um it was funny. I was talking with a she's our sterile hygiene
43:25
summer help, you know, high school kid, whatever. And she finally um she she just kind of seems head in the cloud
43:31
most of the time, like a sweet little kid. And um but she something I had an
43:37
IV day not too long ago and so she stepped into the room and she asked something. I was like, "Well, stick
43:42
around and watch if you want to." like it's and she was so and I was surprised that she took to that
43:50
and was like, "Oh, really?" I'm like, "Well, get over here. You're standing too far away. You can't see anything. Come over here."
43:55
And so, she really, I guess, liked what she saw. And then she came back and
44:00
she's like, "Hey, would you mind if I start bringing patients back?" And if I and I I just did not expect this out of
44:06
her. Um, and then she came again and she said whatever she said and then sent me
44:11
a text that was like, "Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to watch and ask questions." I was just like, "Where did this kid go?" It was super
44:17
sweet. And she's been helping us for a year on breaks just cuz she likes the money and likes her little independence, you
44:24
know, when she's when she can. And so I asked her, I said, "So, are you thinking
44:30
about dental assisting?" Cuz her mom's a dental assistant. That's how she ended up in our office. Her mom used to work for us, was a dental assistant. Now
44:36
she's um when she comes into town, her the family she stays with lives near my
44:41
office. I had a great even though that employee and I had to part ways, we still have maintained a good relationship. And so when she asked if
44:48
her kid could come, I was like, "Okay." Um her kid is very different from her.
44:53
And so I learned that very quick. And I was like, "Okay, well, whatever. She's a sweet kid. As long as she can, you know, bag a mirror and explore together, I
44:59
guess we're good." And um but so now she's like, "Yeah, I am thinking about doing this thing." And I said, you know,
45:05
I think uh if you are thinking about it, I love that you're asking questions. I
45:10
love that you're being proactive cuz we've not seen that at all out of her for the last year.
45:15
Um and here at the tail end of the summer, I'm seeing it. And so anyway, I had a conversation with her and I said,
45:21
"Well, I think what would you would go really well with this profession is you
45:27
are um you know, you you stay in your lane when you're here." Yeah. and you don't get bothered if
45:33
somebody tells you you did something wrong. You're like, "Oh, my bad." And you fix it, but you don't do it again.
45:39
And you don't let yourself get, you know, like you are the low man on the totem pole. You're the temp hygiene
45:45
assistant here. Yeah. You're the low man in busy season where we're all like at our high end of of,
45:52
you know, limited tolerance where we've got to perform for these patients, but in the background we're like, "Let's go."
45:58
and you've never let that bother you and you just go with the flow with it. Um, and I've never caught you crying in the
46:04
break room or, you know, or stomping out and saying, "I'm never coming back here again." Which we see with a lot of
46:10
full-blown adult staff members that just leave and don't come back because I'm
46:15
not treated right. Yeah. And I think that's a good point where a lot of those people have found
46:21
themselves in positions where they um they're trying to be the big fish on
46:27
their own. Yeah. And they end up office hopping and things like that. And anyway, um but I
46:33
told her, I said, you know, make no mistake, a dental office is a hard spot to be in because you've got the doc at
46:38
the top who in theory is the smartest person just because they've have the degree and spent the time and did all of
46:44
that, but it's their name on the door. So, make no mistake, that's the head honcho. Yeah. Then you've got the hygienists who are
46:50
also pro providers for the practice. They are the next big honchos. Now, are we saying that the hygienists work
46:56
harder than the front desk or work harder than the assistants? No. No. Not at all. Most of the time, not.
47:01
Yeah. Yet, they provide. Yeah. So, it is it is what it is. And then you've got the assistants at the bottom
47:06
who honestly if if every if I were to be told you can only keep one employee, I
47:12
would pick a RDA because I can't do my job without the RDA. I could automate a lot of the front. I used to do my own
47:17
claims. I can scale my own teeth, but I cannot assist myself on a Frankle 2 little turkey in the chair.
47:25
And I said, so that's the dance that you have to realize as an assistant. You're probably going to get crapped on quite a
47:31
bit and a lot of assistants can't take it. But you already at your young age seem like you're very much like not
47:38
bothered by it. You know your value. You know we're not going to be able to see patients this afternoon if you don't
47:43
turn around the instruments the right way. Office comes to a screeching halt. You know you're important even though you
47:49
don't have the most important job seemingly on paper. And that's how assistants are going to be. Now, if you
47:54
get too big for your bridges and you think this doctor needs me and this hygienist needs me and me me, then yeah,
48:01
you've become a school, a fish school, school fish, whatever you're um No, you need that doc. You need that
48:08
hygienist. They need you, too. Yes. And that's what I said. I said, I need you, too. And I recognize that I need you,
48:15
but you also need me. So if you're if you can wrap your brain around that, you're going to be very successful in
48:22
your profession as being an RDA. And then I encourage you to learn and know everything you can all the way around
48:28
the office. It is a field that lets you if you were one where you're like, "Nope, my skill set is right here and
48:34
I'm not going to learn this and I'm not going to learn that." It's a profession that allows you to do that. But if I was you, if you want to do it the smart way,
48:40
you'd be like your mom. Yeah. Your mom figured out everything in that office. Yeah. And executed very well. Um and it opened
48:46
more doors for her then. Yeah. So when her life circumstances changed and it no longer worked to where we
48:52
could work together, but she has been successful. Yeah. Um because she trained herself and and
48:59
knew a lot. So that's going to be the concept in any job or field you go into, but especially in a dental office. Make
49:06
no mistake, you are you are entering a profession where you have the most likeliness you're going to be made to
49:12
feel like you are Yeah. at the bottom, you quickly can become the head honcho queen, but not
49:19
more than like it's this just the way nature works. That's the nature of the dental office.
49:24
It is the nature of it. And you got to own that, appreciate that, and function within that
49:30
to be successful ultimately. Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in
49:38
knowing that you are not alone, but we also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try
49:45
in your practice. We value your feedback, so please take a
49:50
few moments to rate and review the podcast. Finally, we want to make sure
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that we're covering the topics that matter to you. So, track us down on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and
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let us know what topics you want us to cover. As always, please know that we
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are rooting for you today as you manage your dental drama.