Personality Impacts Culture

Dr. Kuba and Bethany revisit culture but in a slightly different way today. They look at the personalities that impact the culture the most. In other words, they discuss the most influential personalities on the team (sanguine and cholerics). If your culture seems slightly “off,” or recently went through a dramatic turn of events, it is worth your time to consider the impact of the most dynamic people on your team. They have the ability to very easily sway your team in one direction or the other. So, it is prudent to consider their impact on your team! 

Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

Personalities on Parade

Patient Personalities on Parade 

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then

0:09

you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba

0:14

as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama.

0:22

Let's get started. Hey lady, how do you do? Hey, I'm good. How about you? Good. Good to be back in Dallas. I've

0:28

been kind of on hiatus here for a little bit. Yeah, you've been everywhere, man. You've been everywhere.

0:35

I wouldn't say everywhere. I've just been not here. Um, so first of all, I

0:40

wanted to say you were updating me and I feel like we need to say this because um

0:46

I don't want to I don't want to we don't like saying no. We we um but we're we're

0:53

we're about to get to be if you guys if anybody's interested in the crash course like anytime soon like please reach out.

1:00

Yeah because dates are filling up for next year already and so if you're hemming and hawing somebody's

1:06

going to take your spot. We're going to have to say no and we really don't like that but we we will not have the

1:11

capacity. So, if you're at all considering it, please reach out um so we can have you on our radar and do what

1:17

we can. But we we already like you and I were trying to figure out when we're sending our kids to camp and trying to like it's

1:24

yeah, I just don't want to be in a situation where we can't help somebody who wants the help. Um so please um

1:29

the sooner the better for that. And again, as a reminder, that consulting crash course is two full days with you

1:36

and me and the team and going through and and just it is super practical,

1:42

jam-packed full of consulting and customized customized. So, it's like basically like

1:47

we would send you the, you know, all these questionnaires and things that what do you want to accomplish in these

1:53

two days to kind of put yourself on fast forward mode if you're like, you know what, I'm still struggling with

1:59

scheduling with my front desk team. Okay, then we're going to make sure that your crash course works with your specific front desk

2:06

team. Yeah. I think the other thing that um somebody said to me lately uh

2:12

recently not lately recently about um well so and so on my team is going to be

2:17

leaving cuz they go on maternity leave or so and so is leaving to go move to

2:22

Idaho so you know I don't want to spend all this money on it wasn't on crash course it was on scheduling institute

2:28

type stuff and I said but if you're going to sit and wait for that Mhm. your your team's always going to be

2:34

fluctuating. Yeah. It's more about getting the systems in place. And once you've got the systems

2:40

in place, it's almost like plug-and-play like, okay, Mary left, but Susie started, but we already have the system

2:45

in place and Susie needs to learn this system. Yes. But if you don't have a system, that's why you've got constant chaos.

2:52

So, it's about or if you're like really like setting the culture and you've never sat through and done that, right?

3:00

you know, all the things that can fall into place after as someone leaves or someone new starts. If you've got a

3:06

wellestablished culture, it's easier to figure out whether that person fits into the culture or not.

3:11

Yeah. Um, so if you've not established basic things, then that's why you're

3:16

constantly chaos. So bottom line, the crash course is to be specific to what

3:22

you want out of your office and with the team members that you have. Yeah. And then as people come and go, at

3:29

least you've got systems in place. Absolutely. And we're we're just loving the outcomes. So y'all don't miss out on

3:35

this. It really is. 2026 dates are almost gone, which is crazy, which is awesome. Um but yeah, move quickly.

3:42

Well, I'm just going to say I'm not going to feel bad. Yeah. No, you they've been warm. The early birds get the worm and if you

3:48

miss it, you got to wait till 27. I'm not going to feel bad about that. Yeah, there you go. I like that. Yeah. Um, okay. So, uh, topic for today.

3:57

I, you know, I always ask you, especially since I've been kind of MIA for a little bit here, you know, what's going on in your world? And you said a

4:04

listener wanted us to revisit culture. And I said, well, what does that mean in

4:09

what regard? There's so much we can talk about with culture. And so when I was asking you to give me the background,

4:17

basically her one of her assistants was going to um radiology, a radiology type

4:23

program or something and um so this person leaves and then

4:30

something happened in the radiology like she failed a drug test or Yeah.

4:35

and so wanted her job back and this doc was like I don't know if I bring you

4:41

like do I want you back if you've got a drug problem and do I need that in my office but she was a very well-liked

4:47

employee and really good and anyway I guess

4:52

y'all did the you said they did bring the person back in yes rehired

4:57

and now Doc is saying something's off and she can't tell she's like we were had a fine culture people weren't happy

5:04

when this person was leaving, but they were happy for her. Yeah. They advocated for bringing her back.

5:10

So, doc brought her back and she's like now something's just off. Yeah. And so, my question to you was, but from

5:17

a culture standpoint, what should this doctor do? Like, does she need to go? And you were suggesting like maybe just let

5:24

time settle and see. My question was um

5:29

I guess somewhere in there you mentioned how this um lady who got rehired

5:36

wasn't um she was upset or disappointed that Doc didn't welcome her with open

5:42

heart like Doc was hesitant to hire her back right and Doc put some stipulations like you don't have to take these drug tests and

5:48

whatever and she didn't like said stipulations and in my mind I'm like are you kidding me

5:53

right like the fact that she would even consider hiring you back. I think most of us would be like, I'm not dealing with this. This is too much to deal

5:59

with. But because of pressure from other employees and all of that here, Doc is going,

6:06

okay, and I you mentioned how this employee is a sanguin. Yeah.

6:11

And so for those of y'all who don't remember the personalities, do you want to go over it briefly here in just a sec? But

6:17

I think we'll revisit here in a second. We've got some even though it was like three years ago, those episodes are still super popular and super helpful

6:23

and actually super relevant. Like I even listened back not too long ago and I was like that's still super relevant and

6:28

super helpful reminder for me um as we're navigating some of the things

6:34

we're navigating with my stupid startup. Um,

6:39

your awesome amazing startup and stupid. Sorry, sorry, excuse me. Um,

6:44

so yes, I Well, it's just created drama that I should have known was going to be

6:52

there and I just, you know, anyway, so Sanguin and so when you

6:58

mentioned she was Sanguin, I was like, wait, isn't that one of them that affects the entire office? M

7:05

so the sanguin if they're in a foul mood the whole office is in a foul mood

7:10

um and I was like I bet you anything it's her cuz she's had her feelings hurt now

7:16

cuz of said stipulations and whatever which honey you're you're you're living in in your own little la land. You're

7:23

lucky that this doc hired you back. Um, but I I'm telling you, my gut is she's

7:29

the one who's creating this odd feel in the office. Mhm. And so I think Doc wanted she wanted a

7:37

podcast on culture. Yeah. And I think the way we're going to uh the uh topic within the culture subtopic

7:46

the subtopic within under the culture umbrella is personalities. Yeah. Um, and specifically kind of

7:52

focusing on you, you're kind of the expert on this about saying like there are two main personality types that kind of affect the vibe of the office. Um, so

8:02

uh I guess let me let you take it away and um and of course then come back. You

8:07

know, both of the every personality type, let me say, is vital in the office. Everyone

8:13

and everyone brings pros and cons. And so I think that's we're probably gonna

8:18

get into the pros and cons of these two stronger personalities and then I'm sure you're gonna leave us with some tips of

8:25

what to do. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the

8:30

head when you were listening to me talk about the details of this scenario because I I do think a lot of this

8:37

situation is personality based. So you mentioned the sanguin personality. Again, we're going to encourage you guys

8:43

to go back and listen to the I think it was 3 years ago or so. We'll put them in the show notes, the personality

8:48

episodes, but um there's two that are the I always call them the rudders that

8:54

steer the ship and it's the sanguin personality type and the calleric

9:00

sanguin. I call them the sparkly sanguins. There's sunshine, rainbows, unicorns,

9:05

just super exuberant personality, fun, life of the party, talkative, easily

9:11

liked. People just love the the super sanguin. Um, a little bit ADD. They can

9:17

kind of be just bouncing all over the place or even in conversation. They're

9:22

they can almost come across sometimes and hopefully my senguins won't take this offense willly be almost like a little bit airheady because they'll be

9:29

like on one train of thought and then be like, "Oh, wait." But and they'll bounce over and talk about something else. And

9:35

so they're kind of funny in that way that they're really entertaining to watch them talk. Endearing. Endearing. They can find a

9:42

connection with almost anybody. Anybody or anything. My husband's a sanguin. I'm like, "He talks to the

9:47

wall." I was just about to say how funny that your husband's a sanguin and you're a caleric. The two strong ones you're

9:53

talking about and and and typically those two personalities can

9:59

get on each other's nerves, not like each other pretty much. Yeah. How funny. Okay. Yeah, it's uh yeah, I've become a better

10:06

person over these 23 years of being married to him. Um but not without pain. Um so anyway,

10:14

and he would say the same. Um I was about to ask paint on whose end.

10:20

Both both just want to kill each other. Um but she I definitely think if she had

10:29

that per she's got super strong sanguin personality and if she was probably feeling disappointed about her radiology

10:36

program not working out, kind of hitting a low. I always say with senguins, they've got really high highs and most

10:43

of the time they're in the high category, but man, do they have some lows. When their lows hit, it's just

10:51

like, Lord, help everybody because they can go from really happy and energetic

10:58

and everything's perfect, uh, everything is awesome, you know, we'll go to Lego

11:04

land here, you know, everything is awesome. Um, and then they hit a low and

11:09

it's like it's really hard for them to pull out of that low because they're either hot or cold. They're never in the

11:16

middle. They always either have a great day and most of their days are great, but when they have a low day, it's a

11:21

really low day. And so the sanguins are the rudder that steers the ship because

11:27

if you've got a super sanguin on your team, they bring the energy and the enthusiasm and the excitement and

11:34

they're, you know, chatting it up with team members and making sure that everybody just feels awesome. They're

11:39

the entertainment of the team. They make us laugh. Um, but

11:44

when they're not in happy land, when everything is not awesome in their world, it's very hard on the team

11:52

because what they're used to 85 90% of the time is the they bring the energy.

11:59

And then when they're not that, it's almost like we're lost. Like what do we do without that lack of

12:04

a big cloud over the office? Like it's this depressed vibe of like what is

12:09

Yeah. And even if that person is like in a low and just kind of retreating, you

12:16

know, maybe they're not like moody, they're not outwardly moody, but they're just like in a quiet mode. It's such a

12:23

dynamic shift in the office because they're they've got a big sphere of influence because they're loud and big

12:30

and you notice them in a room. And then when their presence isn't there, even if

12:35

they're physically there, it's like we're awkward and we don't know how to

12:40

function with this dominant personality ultimately. Um, so I think you hit the

12:47

nail on the head when we were talking about this particular situation with this lady that her employee was probably

12:54

in a low already because of the radiology program not working out. And then ultimately she comes back but on

13:02

terms that were not endearing. She's like, "Wait a second, my boss. I've

13:07

worked with you and aren't they people pleasers and they like that? So now somebody's mad at me

13:12

and I've got these stipulations. It's like that's not fun. No, that's not fun. That puts a lot of

13:17

pressure on me and I like to have fun and it doesn't feel good, right? This

13:22

employee is probably feeling like she let her boss down. She let her team down. She let herself down. Now, yeah,

13:30

I've got these feelings about having these stipulations. Don't you just want me back because I am who I am? I'm so

13:36

Don't you love me and what all I've done for you? Yes. Yes. And so, I think you're exactly

13:42

right. when this uh listener reached out and explained the situation, it's like,

13:48

okay, that makes sense that the culture feels a little bit off in the wake of

13:53

what's happened with this sanguin team member because she may be off that the

13:58

team member that got brought back may just be off herself. And so now the team's kind of like, what's going on?

14:04

What do we do with that? Um, so I do want to mention just cuz I think it's

14:09

relevant here. So that's the sanguin influence and obviously is directly related to this particular situation.

14:16

But the other one is equally influential. Both of these are considered extroverted personality

14:22

types. Um which means that you know what you're getting with

14:27

them. It's very easy to spot these two personalities because they're loud and outspoken but in very different ways. So

14:36

the sanguin is on one side of the spectrum. Sparkly, fun, rainbow sunshine. Everybody loves me. The

14:41

calleric is on the other end of the spectrum. Very uh dynamic as well, but

14:46

in a very direct, intense, we got stuff to get done people type

14:54

personality. They're no fun. No fun. No fun vibe. No, you're scary. You're intimidating is the word that I

15:00

always use that they're very intimidating. Intense. But both cleric and sanguin, they have

15:07

this frenetic energy. Like they're just very energetic personality types. But

15:14

the cleric is energetic in the way of getting things done. Their goal when

15:19

they wake up every morning is I've got 92 million things to do and I would like to accomplish 92 million and1 things by

15:26

the end of the day. And so they view people around them as either barriers to

15:31

getting that done or support in getting that done. And when they feel like

15:36

people keep getting in their way, they are belligerent and often angry and

15:44

irritable and um they already have that natural intimidation factor, but now

15:49

they're just ticked off all the time. And my cleric was like cranky pants. Like

15:55

what's in your pant today? They're like, "Can can I throw a bucket of cold water on you? Can you cool off?"

16:03

Take take a step back. But they can't. Just like the sanguin has a hard time turning off their sanguin self. A cleric

16:10

has a really hard time turning off that intensity and that drive to perform. Am I wrong or is it just is it me? Am I

16:17

the, you know, clueless one? But I feel like they don't even know that they are that intense. Oh, they have no clue.

16:22

So when you're like, "Dude, you need to take it down a notch." They're like, "What are you talking about?" Yeah. Or funny to me where I'm like, you know,

16:29

they'll be like, "Oh, well, you know, so and so was attacking me." And I'm like, "Are you kidding me? You are a bulldog.

16:36

You're attacking somebody every hour." And we're all like cowering in fear over

16:41

in the corner here like going to the sanguin to be like, "Okay, baby. It's

16:46

okay. Keep going. You got this. We got this." And what she said. And then like

16:53

when the calerics are like, you're like, "Are you kidding me?" like you're most scary. Yes. They are unaware. They are unaware

17:00

of how intense they are. Yes. I mean, they know themselves well enough to know

17:05

that they have a drive to get things done, but they do not realize that they communicate with such harsh harshness.

17:12

Um, which is why I say all the time that my husband and I barely survived the first seven years of our marriage. It

17:18

was painful because he's like, "Praise me. Love me. I'm awesome. Everybody

17:24

around me says I'm awesome. And I'm like, "You're terrible. We didn't get this done. We didn't get this done. Dang it. Shut the shower door." How many

17:30

times have we talked about this? And and so you come home, you come away from your work where everybody puts you on

17:37

this pedestal and thinks you're just God's gift to mankind. And you come home to a spouse is like, "You're awful. I

17:43

can't stand you." And it's like, "Yeah, that's that's a challenging seven years." So, but I didn't realize myself

17:50

how direct I was being. and how I have to add some fluff in to almost everybody

17:58

needs a little bit of fluff. But I was just like, "Hey, that's useless. Let's just get to the point. Let's talk data."

18:03

And every personality type needs somebody that fluffs them up before that direct. I think, yeah, clear y'all are probably

18:09

like, you know, I love you. I wouldn't have married you. Like, shut the hell up. Why are we wasting time? Let's get back to the topic and handle. Let's move on. Like, we need a solution here. Love

18:16

you, kisses. Great. Do you need anything else? Okay. Can we talk about this now? Right? And like for

18:22

the rest of us, we're like, "Well, she wants to divorce me. She hates me. I

18:27

suck." The girls's like, "What? What do you mean? Where'd you Where'd you come to

18:33

that deduction?" They're completely unaware. But they have a substantial impact on teams.

18:42

Substantial. The sanguin of course can can sway the culture because of their

18:47

fun and vibrant personality and the energy and just vibrancy that they bring

18:52

and the calleric can bring this intensity that is definitely necessary

18:57

on teams. We have to as much as we want to go to work and have fun and sing kumbaya and just enjoy each other, we

19:05

also have a job to get done and that job is very important. And so the cleric

19:10

knows that. And especially if they're the only cleric on the team, they can almost feel like, you know, those uh

19:17

super strong people that they'll like take these challenges of like pulling a bus. They'll like put these straps on

19:23

and it's all strapped to this bus and they're like trying to make it like 10 ft, you know, pulling this bus. That's a

19:28

cleric. Every day he or she's like, "God, I got to drag this."

19:34

Despite you idiots, I will get us there. You fools. You're lucky you have me

19:39

here. God only bless what y'all would be doing. Yes. And then when they cross the line,

19:45

they firmly believe that it was single-handedly. Like it we wouldn't have made it if it

19:52

were not for me. Yeah. I did this despite all this dead weight of you folks. Y'all were literally just sitting on the

19:58

bus adding to my weight that I had to carry. Now, a lot of clerics, cuz I

20:05

don't also don't want to offend I tend to speak more harshly on clerics because I because I am one, but a lot of clerics

20:11

out there learn to temper this over time. They still keep the drive. They keep keep the ability to get so many

20:17

things done in a very small amount of time, but they're able to soften some of

20:23

their harsh harsh edges. Either they refrain from communicating or when they

20:28

do communicate, they learn to add a little bit of, "Oh, you're so good at this. could you help me with this? And

20:34

they're t they learn the tact, but it doesn't remove their intensity. They may learn to soften it, but they're

20:41

the people surrounding them still feel like this pressure we've got to like perform. And so that can have a

20:48

significant impact on culture, especially if you have a cleric that hasn't learned to soften those edges.

20:56

Then it's just like everybody's walking on eggshells all the time. Well, and I I would say, correct me if I'm wrong, but M the calerics that

21:04

eventually learn to soften. It's cuz they're seeing they're they're not getting anywhere

21:09

or that bus is they wanted to move 10 feet and they were only able to move two

21:15

and now they're going wait I could get to the other 8 ft if I would soften this if I would fluff that. I'm still going

21:22

to be the one to get us to that 10-ft mark, but I'm smart enough to realize that if

21:29

I want some of these people to lighten the load a little bit, I need to figure out how to befriend these people.

21:35

Yes. Um otherwise, they really know that they are making their own

21:40

uh job that much harder. Yeah. it it can oftentimes be a strategic move that they learn they

21:46

realize actually I do need these people and therefore I've got to learn how to work with people and so it still can be

21:55

ultimately um this sounds awful it's not selfserving but it's like I can still

22:00

get fulfillment out of my job if I learn to use these people well and and that sounds bad but

22:07

the sanguin has the same goal which is to be liked and to be loved and they're

22:13

going to put on a good show. Why? So that they receive the fulfillment of being liked. So we're all self-s serving

22:19

in some way um because of our personality bents. But yeah, the the good powerful clerics have learned how

22:25

to work with people. So in this dog's case, what is she to do now? Like do you have any suggestions?

22:32

Is it still like, well, we just need to wait it out. Wait out this penguin. that her, you know, feel shiny and happy

22:39

again because sooner than later everyone will be giving her the accolades and she'll kind of forget that she wasn't

22:47

received automatically. Hallelujah, you're coming back. Thank God we are so happy you're here, right?

22:53

It's probably what she was expecting. Yeah. And then she didn't get that and so now she's, you know, ruffled about that.

23:00

What would you suggest a this doc do, but then also in general for the rest of us like are there any tips

23:07

when you have a sanguin or a caleric that are the spheres of influence

23:14

and they're off what what are our steps to how do we move get them back on track and I actually

23:20

think they're very different steps for the sanguin and for the cleric. So let's talk about the sanguin first because this is the most relevant to the

23:27

situation that we're discussing. So, with the sanguin, I think what I would

23:32

recommend in this in this particular situation is two things. First of all, yes, give it some time. The sanguin

23:38

normally doesn't stay low forever. It's not in their DNA to just be miserable

23:44

forever. Um, so give them time. They'll they'll snap back. But we can force some

23:50

of that bouncing back because what does the sanguin love? They love relationships, connection, fun. So,

23:57

schedule a team outing. It can be something as simple as, "Hey, we're going to extend the lunch on Wednesday

24:04

um to two hours and we're going to go out and have some lunch together. We're just going to have fun and enjoy ourselves." Nothing workrelated, just

24:11

social. Would it would it be we're just doing this or is it yay, Amy's back, we're

24:18

doing this? Are we highlighting Amy? No. In this case, I wouldn't highlight Amy because I don't want to send the

24:26

wrong message to the team, which is, "Hey, by the way, you know, you can come back after a failed drug test at another

24:32

program." Like, we don't want to highlight that. I would just be like, "Hey, you know what? It's been a while

24:38

since we've had a good lunch together. Let's let's go hang out and enjoy." And in all honesty, that's all the sanguin

24:43

needs. They need fun. They need like everything's normal. Everything's okay. Look at us. we were able to sit and chat

24:49

chat about lunch and that could be all it takes to put her back on Cloud9. So,

24:55

we could force that by scheduling something like that. Um, and I don't think it has to be a huge investment of,

25:01

oh, we're all going to get manicures, pedicures. No, just do something as simple as lunch. The sanguin doesn't need much to um be full and satisfied.

25:11

Now, if after that we still see that the sanguin's like a little off or maybe not

25:16

herself, um then it could be that we're incorporating little positive encouragement again. And it doesn't have

25:24

to be like, "Oh, Amy, we love you and adore you and just we don't have to keep relating it back to the fact that she

25:29

was gone and we missed you so much." We can relate it to right here, right now, Amy, I cannot believe that you won over

25:36

Mr. Grouchy Pants. like how did you get him to not cuss us out this time? You're

25:41

you've got such skill at that. So, it can be all current things that are happening, but we're just being more

25:47

intentional to compliment her in the wake of this kind of downturn that she had. And so, the lunch I think should do

25:54

it, but if it doesn't, then making sure to just really highlight her strengths in the next few weeks and then she'll be

26:00

back to normal. It's going to take time, but she'll get back to normal. Okay. Then, what about Cleric? Cleric's harder. Um because Lord have

26:09

mercy, don't throw a lunch at that person. Do not throw team building at that person. Honestly, and again, I'm a

26:16

cleric, so I'm speaking to myself here. Honestly, we're not we're not good in those settings. We're just as

26:22

intimidating in social laid-back settings as we are in the job place. So

26:30

if if the culture's off from a caleric being caleric or a grouchy calleric,

26:36

which is like way worse, um almost unbearable. But if that

26:42

culture is off, the last thing they need is social time to show everybody that they actually are as miserable and

26:49

cranky as they're portraying at work. Um so I would avoid that. As a matter of

26:54

fact, you might even cancel a team building or postpone it until we get the cleric back on track because it will

27:01

serve to make things worse and not better. Um, to me with the cleric, it's going to be one-on-one time with her to

27:08

go, listen, you've been you've been intense lately, and I know you're intense for all the

27:15

right reasons. You love this place. You're a hard worker. You're sweating it

27:21

out all the time. I just love your effort. but I can tell you're you're frustrated or you're upset or

27:27

something's going on. I can feel it. Let's talk through what you need. And most of the time, those clerics are

27:33

first of all surprised cuz they didn't realize that they were showing that.

27:39

Um, and then second of all, they normally have very specific things quickly. Like they don't have to think

27:45

about what they're annoyed by for very long. They're not, "Oh, let me think on that and I'll come back to They'll be like, "Yeah, I'm irritated as pissed

27:52

because Betty can't get insurance verification right and I'm catching so many mistakes and I'm done. I'm done

27:58

with her." It's normally something like that that finally comes up and then we're having to kind of talk through,

28:04

okay, what do we do? How can we solve this problem? So, I'm glad you bring up that example because that's what I was thinking like

28:11

what if they want somebody fired? Because a lot of times I feel like that's what we tend to hear.

28:16

Yep. and you're not going to fire that person. So then now you've asked, "What can I do

28:23

to help you?" She has very clearly said what she expects and now you're going, "Uh, no, I'm not doing that." Is that

28:30

going to irritate her and cranky pants her more? Do I need to maybe explain why I'm not?

28:38

Mhm. How do you handle that? Cuz yeah, you're right. Maybe Betty is messing it up and

28:43

it's making more work, but we still need Betty. at least she's doing 40% right or

28:48

maybe she's not doing that but she's the one who gets there first thing in the morning and she gets the whole office situated and we've

28:54

never had anybody who does that as well as she does I don't know like what do you do if you're not going to fire somebody because I feel like that's

29:00

a lot of times what they're asking a and you it it is because in their minds in in a cleric's mind it's like I

29:08

have a barrier to being successful and my barrier is not a bad system it's not

29:13

bad training it's not a bad software. It's a bad person that's in my way and

29:20

I'm done with her. And so, you're exactly right. When they're bringing up a frustration, it's very seldom like,

29:25

uh, I really feel like Betty needs some training. Can we focus on that? It's like, Betty needs to go and I'm done.

29:31

And that is a big strategic decision that does not need to be made in that

29:36

moment. So, I do think it takes being very direct with the cleric. The calleric can take your directness and

29:43

you can say, "Okay, I hear you. Bettyy's a problem." We'll talk about Betty in a

29:48

minute, but you and I both know in order to run this business team approp

29:54

appropriately, we need three ladies, including you. We cannot, even for a

29:59

short period of time, we cannot run it on two ladies. We've done that before, and it's failed in the past. So, I'm not

30:06

willing to take that risk and kick Betty to the curb tomorrow and risk the

30:12

practice. Not willing to do that. What I am willing to do is invest in Betty and

30:17

if dependent upon the situation, if that doctor's okay with still looking for a

30:22

replacement, if he knows that the chances are real low that Bettyy's going to get this and he knows he's ultimately going to be replacing Betty, then he can

30:29

always start, he or she could always start a job search. But I would say, I'm willing to invest in Betty. Can you,

30:36

Miss Cleric, find me courses that you think would help Betty? Do you know

30:42

other insurance coordinators at another office that Betty could be with? Like, whatever you can come up with that you

30:48

think would support Betty, I'm willing to do that to get you to where Bettyy's not a barrier. And that cleric will take

30:54

those marching orders and find something for Betty to get improved upon. So now

31:02

the downside is we are going to have to have a moment with the cleric where we remind her to be patient

31:10

because a cleric wants results the next day. Betty went over to Dr. Jones office

31:16

down the street and sat with their insurance coordinator and came back and she's just as crappy today. You're like

31:23

it's been one day a cow. Did you expect her? A cleric expects immediate results.

31:29

So I think if we're willing, if we're trying to talk to the cleric about giving us a chance with Betty and let us do some training, we also have to have

31:35

that very direct conversation that says just wait. Let Betty try. Remember,

31:40

she's not going to learn it as fast as you. Very few people on this team are going to learn it as fast as you. You're

31:45

quick. Most people are not quick. And you've got to you've got to quit expecting everybody to be quick like you

31:50

because they're not. So yes, I'll send a Betty to this training and I'll send her down the street to Dr. Jones's office,

31:56

but I'm not going to talk about Betty again for the next 3 months cuz we got to give her some time to actually use

32:01

those skills. And I need you not to be pissy in the in the 3 months that we're

32:07

waiting for Betty. I need you to be to come back to your normal, you know, I

32:12

can't even say happy normal spot, your neck's pissy.

32:18

Yeah. Yes. So, I think that's how if it's a cleric that's throwing things off,

32:23

that's probably what we're going to have to do. I think um with you saying that it's made me think of two cleric manager

32:30

kind of figureheads we've had in the office and that's exactly the problem. And I remember with one of them I one

32:35

time said okay well you were a major part of this hiring like you helped

32:42

screen you helped interview. you liked this person. This person's not meeting

32:48

expectations, but if I fire her tomorrow, and I will do it tomorrow if that's what you were recommending because I don't work with

32:54

her if she's driving you that crazy. I need to remind you though that it's not like I'm going to be okay with insurance

33:01

not being verified or reminder calls being what, you know, whatever it is like that's going to come to you cuz

33:08

then that leaves you. That's right. So, if you're if you're saying, "I am so done with her that I

33:15

will absorb all of those tasks and I would prefer that to dealing with Betty." Okay, let me know that and I'll

33:21

most likely make that decision. Yeah. And every time it's been like, well, cuz

33:26

I'm my next comment is, okay, cuz then that means we start the search again and they already know they were part of

33:32

the search to begin with. So, I'm like, unless you've got a friend that moved into town that you're trying to advocate for for to get this position. Oh, you

33:39

don't? Okay. I don't either. Yeah. So, yeah, Betty didn't work out, but that means we're starting over. Do you

33:45

remember that application applicant pool list we got? There were three people we liked on there.

33:50

A, we couldn't afford. B, didn't match up to what we needed. And C, we hired

33:56

Betty. Mhm. So, we're going to start that process again. And we may be, you know, we may get somebody who can verify the

34:02

insurance, but now she can't enter the phones. Like, everybody has a plus or minus. Everybody has a

34:08

ceiling. And we picked Betty because she could answer the phones nicely and she looked professional.

34:14

Yes, she did tell us that she's been working front desk for 8 years. It's odd that she can't verify insurance, but

34:21

if we can give her a minute, we we picked her for a reason. Yeah. And those reasons haven't changed. It's

34:27

not like suddenly, oh, oh, it's September now. Now is when all the good candidates come through. Dummy us. We

34:33

were looking in July. They're all back from vacay. we should get 15 instead of three. That ain't happening.

34:39

No. So, we pick Betty for a reason. And it's just that reminder of going, "Okay, I I don't have another solution."

34:46

Yeah. So, if I'm firing Betty, it's you. You're the solution. Yeah. Oh, you don't want that either. Okay.

34:51

Well, then I guess we've got Betty and we're going to give it um when you said kind of a deadline, like be patient. We

34:57

we kind of have to I find that with the callerics I have to kind of give a

35:03

deadlineish so that they can kind of go it's not just in per perpetuity Kuba is just dodging me now. No, I am looking

35:09

for certain things. Yeah. Um and this is how long I'm willing to give it. Yeah.

35:14

But make no mistake at the end of that 3 months if we determine Bettyy's out, I'm

35:19

turning to you to go, how are we replacing Betty? So I need you to be looking at that, too. Do you want to be the one to put

35:25

out the job post? Are you going to post it on your Facebook? Like, what are we doing? Cuz I've utilized my resources.

35:31

Yep. I'll have another one. Yeah. Oh, and all those Indeed things that you

35:36

said took you 3 hours last time, do you want to start that now or do you want to wait cuz I'm still not doing that?

35:42

Yeah. Like I I would rather give Betty a chance. If you are not in that same boat, then I need you to come up with

35:49

some solutions. So, and and yeah, they're going to do one of two things. is either going to shut up and give Betty a chance or they're going to come

35:56

with that indie post and get you some better applicants. Great. I'm going to win. Yep.

36:02

And they have control in it. I think that's what's important with a cleric is they like controlling their outcomes and

36:09

this gives them the opportunity to do that which I think is really important.

36:15

uh knowing like the exact example. I remember that conversation with you and and a team member and you said exactly

36:22

that like okay but then that means tomorrow it's all on you. It's 100% your

36:27

responsibility and then the cleric backed away. Well, I know I don't know she still brings value in this way and

36:33

that way. Okay, then we're going to keep her for those reasons then. And so I do think the cleric's got to own the

36:40

consequences of that control that she gets. And I think that's an important aspect to put in there as well. But man,

36:48

it's I mean, I can't tell you how often something's

36:55

off on a team surrounding one of these two personality types. Uh,

37:02

and both are phenomenal. Yes. Phenomenal in so many ways. If y'all go back and listen Yeah. listen to the

37:08

episode about and it may be in the personality one about me hiring a bunch of flegmatics and like it was a game

37:14

changer once I started varying the personality types in the office um because nobody was driving the bus like

37:21

the flematics were all happy to be on the bus but we weren't going anywhere and they were like okay well at least I'm on the bus there's no we're not

37:28

moving okay I'm on but it's a good bus okay well I wanted to go somewhere

37:35

and now I'm doing this by myself and you get either a sanguin or a cleric on your bus and man, you are moving. You are

37:42

moving. It is. But if sanguin wants to stop off and get a slurpee,

37:48

the whole bus is stopping to get said slurpee and you know what I mean? Like so there's plus and minuses to these

37:55

strong personalities. Yes. Um and it's just trying to figure out how to manage each of them.

38:00

Yeah. And knowing that if your culture feels off to look at these two

38:05

personality types first and go, hey, you know, Sally's my super sanguin and

38:11

Celeste is my super caleric. Let me check in with those people first because

38:17

if something's off, it very well could be those supercharged personalities. But I agree with you, they're critical. I

38:23

can't tell you how many times I get on a team that's, you know, full of flegmatics and melancholies and it is.

38:29

is it's like we're going places but we might be going at 2 miles hour. It's very very slow, very little

38:35

communication, very little energy. Um so yeah, and a lot more burnout I think for the

38:40

boss. the owner is like, I I'm just tired because you're having to be the cheerleader

38:47

and the focal point and the let's go and you're like I I was kind of hoping my

38:52

team would carry me a little bit like I'm I'm doing all the things that I'm doing and I was kind of hoping to have some

38:58

help here. Yeah. And I'm having to do everything and I am exhausted. Yeah.

39:04

And then you come to find you don't have enough uh ver variety. Mhm. Um, but then this is where the pendulum

39:11

swings and you can get the other side. You're going to that's I think that's a key takeaway is you're going to

39:17

experience the upside of these personalities most times, but there's a downside. And I think we have to be

39:23

prepared for that and have a game plan of, okay, when my super sanguin's off social, we're going to add social stuff

39:29

in and she's going to be fine. when my super caleric's off, okay, I'm gonna have a direct conversation with her,

39:35

figure out what her pain points are, see if there's any of those that we can solve. And if there's not any that we

39:40

can solve, then I'm setting clear expectations for her that I need her to put that out of her mind and focus on

39:46

what she can control. And so, yeah, we've got to be prepared for the downside on these personalities.

39:53

Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone, but we

40:00

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