Gossip, Backstabbing, and Drama, Oh my

Dr. Kuba is back in the studio today and is putting Bethany on the spot. While she appreciated the advice from the previous episode, she felt like the examples were missing. What rumor mill? And was the advice actually implementable? She and Bethany discuss specific instances where team members bring the drama. They also discuss if the advice is actionable.  

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Chapters

• 7:21 Parking Lot Gossip Crew
• 14:24 Address Gossip Immediately
• 20:51 Reframing Conversation
• 27:05 Accountability and Ownership
• 29:45 Owner Lunch Convo
• 32:51 Team Member Assumption
• 37:50 Handling the Gossip

Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then

0:09

you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba

0:14

as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama.

0:22

Let's get started. What's up? Hey. Hey lady. You doing good?

0:27

I'm good. How about you? I'm good, but I'm going to pick on you here. Uh oh. I'm ready. Bring it.

0:33

Well, I loved the solo episode you did not too long back about the rumor mill. Yes.

0:39

However, I don't feel like you brought the drama. What? Me not bringing drama.

0:46

Imagine that. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. This is where you tried to give me that shirt that somebody stole from our AAPD booth. by the way,

0:53

which said drama queen or the original drama queen. The original drama queen. Something like that that you got for me

0:59

and and somebody swiped it. Swiped it. Yeah. Right under our noses. Right under our noses. And so I but I

1:07

felt like I'm just going to be honest with you. Yeah. You know, I'm not trying to be

1:12

whatever, but um dramatic. Yeah. Or mean. I'm not trying to be mean. But I'm just saying like when I

1:19

listened to it, I was like, "This is all fine and good. However, I just don't see

1:24

myself following this advice." And what I mean by that is because it was it was

1:30

uh kind of global like if your team members are rumor milling and um you pull one aside and then you

1:38

talk to the other one. And I sorry I I know I'm that's not the advice you gave, but whatever. If you could kind of go

1:43

back to some of it, but my take-home message was I'm not doing that. I'm going to try to do it. It was the right

1:50

advice, but am I going to do it? Most likely not. I'm probably going to do what I tend to do and bury my head and wait for a bomb to go off

1:57

and then I would I will deal with it. And so I think what I would have found helpful is if you had had specific

2:03

examples so that I could be like, "Ah, you're right. In that case, I would have stayed

2:10

in my office, but you're right. I think I could have stepped out and caught it at this point." And then I see your

2:17

advice is obviously right, but how how can it be easier for me to follow I

2:22

guess is what I was hoping to like color in some of what do you mean by and and

2:28

I'm forgetting that some of the advice you gave anyway. So if you could I might make you kind of re I know you gave that

2:34

advice based off of specific examples. Yeah. And so that's why it was on your heart and your mind and that's why you wanted

2:40

to talk about that. Um so if you can remember Yeah. Yeah. What some of those things were that made

2:45

you go, you know what, this happened in Dr. Kuba's office and I'm going to say

2:51

we need to stop the rumor and share what happened in that office if you could. Yeah. Do you mind? I'll think. Oh, yeah. No, I think it's I

2:57

think the examples are always super helpful. So, the one that I'm Well, they're dramatic and and they're they add

3:03

they add the meat. They fit the title. So, let's throw it in here. You had the managing dental part down to

3:10

a tea. Just miss the drama. Just miss the drama. Can we come back?

3:16

So go back. Retake. Just part two. Part two for those of us

3:21

that aren't that bright that can connect the dots and are just going to go, "Oh, that's great advice and I'm doing none of it

3:26

because I have to think about how I would apply that advice." So, can you dummy down scenes?

3:34

Yes. Yeah. The drama tidbits to make it more um obvious to those of us that are like,

3:40

"Oh, that's how you apply that." Yes. Well, and so this is where as I share the examples, you'll have to think

3:47

about it from your perspective because I think I am

3:52

first of all by nature more confrontational. I don't mind it. To me,

3:58

it's like the only way to get resolution is to be direct and to confront things.

4:03

I was talking about this with my dad recently and he's a very conflict adverse person and somehow he has raised

4:11

two daughters that are like tag me in boss like I'll do it you know and we we

4:17

don't mind it we approach it very very differently but um I don't mind the

4:22

conflict cuz I feel like conflict is an opportunity to to grow or to be better

4:28

or to bring something to the surface that's brewing down below I'm like it is not helpful down below. So, let's drag

4:35

that sucker up. And so, I think I'm naturally that way and then I'm in a consulting role where these problems are

4:41

being brought to my attention and I'm like, let's hammer it out. Like, let's do this. And so, I I do think as I share

4:49

these examples, you may have a perspective of going, okay, me as a practice owner, how might I deal with

4:55

that? which is exactly what I'm hoping for because just to just based off of what you just said. First of all, I come

5:02

from a family and kind of a culture. It's all about optics and you just bury

5:07

that and dirty laundry is not to be shared, which clearly like I share all my dirty laundry on this podcast. So

5:13

clearly I'm blocked by the family. But when you say you view conflict and getting into the surface as an

5:19

opportunity, I agree. It's an opportunity to have one more problem and one more headache for

5:24

me to blow this up the wrong way and make it a lot worse. So, um, even for the docs that don't mind

5:31

conflict and are like, "Yep, let's be direct and nip it in the bud." I think my guess is the challenge that they're

5:37

also going to face is, "But I'm also trying to do some goddamn dentistry. I don't have time for this. So, even if I

5:43

don't mind addressing it, when would you like me to do that? I've got to call these two patients back.

5:48

We've got this billing issue. The compressors down. I got to fight with the sales rep. Like, when would you like

5:55

me to handle this? You know what? That is back burner stuff. Those ladies, those gents, whoever's fighting back

6:00

there are going to have to figure it out themselves. I don't have time for this. And I think that's where I kind of was

6:06

whichever way, whether you're okay dealing with conflict or you're just like, I can't handle this or I'm going

6:11

to make it worse or I don't want to deal whatever it may be, we've got other things to do that are legitimate things

6:16

to do. And as we're trying to prioritize what we're gonna do, this is gonna fall

6:22

to the This is not productive. You know what I mean? Like as far as you're going ching, it's more productive for me to

6:27

get on the phone with the sales rep to try to get my compressor fixed. It's more productive for me to drill and fill. Trying to deal with Mary and Susie

6:33

calling at each other is really not productive. Yeah. And of course it is because if they're not getting along, then they're not

6:38

getting their jobs done effectively and blah blah blah. But as the owner, that's my viewpoint going. still in the order

6:46

of my perceived importance. Uh that's going to be the last on my

6:52

plate to deal with. For those of us that are Bethany clients, we're like, well, we'll just wait for Bethany to come in

6:57

and deal with it. Right? So, or if you've got a manager, you're like, go ahead, manager, deal with it. So, um I

7:03

think that's why I was kind of going for for those that don't have a Bethany or don't have a manager or your manager's

7:08

busy. She doesn't have time to deal with these two little squawking children either. Well, and sometimes it can't be

7:15

properly managed by the manager. They're they're trying. The attempt is there.

7:21

So, I I'll give you the first example that I think will be helpful in this scenario. So,

7:26

um this particular team has we're we're trying

7:32

we're desperately trying to kind of rework this culture. There are sometimes

7:38

that it's just infuriating to me that I'll step into a team that could be so

7:45

dang good, but they're so busy complaining about each other

7:53

that they're just distracted. They're um and the and the poor manager is just

7:59

constantly putting out fires, right? So, which a manager should be able to be

8:06

pulling reports, going over marketing strategy, maybe looking at the overhead and saying, "How can we reduce this?"

8:11

Like, the manager has other things that would behoove the entire practice

8:17

to get more patients in the door and more procedures. And if she's constantly having to put out fires and she said

8:23

this and he said that no and make documentation for HR purposes and whatever like so if you're a

8:30

troublemaker and you are distracting your manager or dare I say your doctor you're shooting yourself in the foot.

8:36

Yep. Yep. And that is where it becomes unproductive. You know, we talk about

8:41

that whole productive category, and you're right, it is more productive for the doctor to be involved in other

8:47

things like dentistry, but there may come a point where the drama and the

8:54

rumors and the gossip and all of that is so distracting to your team that you are

9:01

carrying a much heavier clinical weight because you've got distracted employees

9:06

all around you. Um, well, and I I didn't even realize, like I talk about this in uh one of the

9:12

digest articles I wrote that's um going to be coming out here soon, but that that to me was one of those things where

9:18

I happened to be on vacation and I thought we had a plan in place and then my team squawking like children. I just

9:25

was not expecting it and I'm like, no wonder we've made such little progress in these couple of areas. It's because

9:32

y'all have decided to go into child mode and can I not take a damn vacation? Like,

9:39

yeah, focus. So, it's it's my take-home message now for now to the rest of the year. I'm like, I just got to make sure

9:45

my face is present, which is annoying AF, right? Is annoying as beep, but

9:51

it is what it is. Um, anyway, so getting back to Yeah. So, I think in this particular

9:57

scenario, we've just got a team that we can't seem to kind of get this gossip

10:05

rumor mill out of the way. So, the way that the manager really has been trying

10:12

to deal with it is each little issue that pops up, you know, a team member walks into her office and is upset at

10:19

another team member for some lack of performance. You know, oh, she keeps making the same mistake. I'm just I'm so

10:26

annoyed. Right? So, then manager's going pulling in that team member. Hey, performance. let's talk about this, you

10:32

know, you need to make these corrections, like go, you know, go do it. Next thing she knows, she turns around, she's got another one in there.

10:39

So, she is trying to stay on top of it, but is wearing herself out in the process to be expected,

10:46

but what what popped up or what blew up was so

10:53

she's feeling exhausted by all these separate people popping in and she's going to have correct, you know, correct

10:58

these issues. But she was away. Uh child was having surgery. She was not at the

11:04

office and there's thankfully, you know, there's cameras um all over the office,

11:10

but uh the one with audio are on the outside of the office and she's home

11:16

with her child who's recovering from surgery and she's like, "What is going on in the back, you know, in the uh back

11:22

part?" She has like an app on her phone or what? Yeah, she has access to all the office cameras and everything so she's able to

11:29

keep track of things while she's away, you know, and so she keeps getting all these pings of all this action in the

11:35

back parking lot. She What is happening? Right. Well, there's a group of team

11:40

members that are back there chatting it up, you know. She's like, "What is going on?"

11:45

Sorry. During patient care hours or after or Yeah, during patient care. Oh, good grief.

11:52

grief, right? Which is like anyway, talk about nonproductive. See,

11:58

this is what I'm talking about. It may not seem like a big deal, but we're pulling people away from patient care to

12:03

come back and have conversation in the back parking lot. That is lack of

12:08

productivity. Like, that's a problem. So, you know, office manager is like, "Oh gosh, what's going on?" So, she's of

12:15

course watching cameras to make sure it's nothing that she needs to deal with. And all it is is one big gripe

12:22

session talking badly about other team members. Oh, you think that's bad? Well, this

12:28

team member did this and this team member did this and we got a mean girl club and

12:35

not a productive conversation. So, these individuals are off the floor. May I ask, are they clocked in by the

12:41

way? Yeah. Yeah. So, my hair is starting to get on fire.

12:46

Yeah. So, this is, you know, you see the smoke coming out of my ears. when what is it? When the cat's away, the mice will play. Right? So, this is a

12:53

typical scenario where that manager should be able to be home with her kid recovering from surgery and not have to

13:00

worry about things. But instead, it's not she's having to worry about it,

13:06

right? And so, not only is this a problem because we're distract we've got

13:12

distracted employees. We've got people off the floor wasting

13:17

clocked in time, but also it's not productive. It's not a good conversation. Why is it helpful to go

13:25

back there and belly ache and moan stir the pot? Stir the pots. Yeah.

13:31

Yeah. Um, and even throw in that in that

13:36

conversation, even throw the manager on the under the bus. Well, you know, you know, she's not going to deal with it,

13:42

which I see the manager, I'm like, all she's doing is dealing with y'all's crap all day long. So, that's unfair, you

13:49

know. So, this is the type of rumor mill that I'm talking about where,

13:56

yes, it seems like, oh, this is child's play. Just let it go. Well, no, cuz let

14:02

it go says it's okay for you to do that again because there was no reprimand for that. There was no action taken there.

14:10

You were just able to get away with that. No, we got to have boundaries drawn and set expectations that that is

14:16

unacceptable. Um, so there's one example.

14:22

So what was the advice if you can tie the advice into this like what

14:27

should we have done? Like suppose it's me and either from the perspective of I'm the manager or I'm the um doctor

14:35

who's my manager's calling me saying, "Hey, there's a gaggle of girls outside." So, tying this back to the episode, one

14:44

of my main points was you can't let this go. It is easy enough, especially let's

14:49

say the manager wasn't the one that was catching all of this. Let's say there wasn't a manager and you've just got an

14:55

owner doc, but you become aware that this kind of content is happening. I

15:01

think it's very very risky to sit on this and not do anything. Cuz I'll tell you, my thought would be

15:07

like if this came up to me, I think I would only be focused on the what the hell are you doing on my clock going out

15:16

there and having this se session like that is inappropriate. What if patients could hear you? What if other

15:21

people who work at surrounding businesses hear you? This is not a good look. Like, what is wrong with you people? I need a level of

15:27

professionalism and I'm clocking you guys out for, you know, like an hour whether you were out there for 5 minutes

15:33

just for the fact of you thinking it's okay. And I probably would have left it at that, which is still not helpful.

15:41

That would have been me just stewing on that part of it. So, um, that's where I'm like, okay, now that you've colored

15:47

that in for me. So, what other advice you're saying? Yeah, I set the boundary. This can't happen again. But I feel like

15:53

my only color for that would have been like, do not steal time from me. And now

15:58

you are bitching about everything under the sun. Like, there are tasks to do. People just want to go home. Um, so I

16:04

guess to make sure I get more bang out of my boom on them, what should I be?

16:10

You know, I I wouldn't have thought about like, yeah, you're going to do this again. I would assume they're not going to do it again just because of the

16:16

clock out time, but they were they probably could do it again, but clock out and do it at lunchtime and then and

16:21

then would I not care as much. And I could see myself going, "All right, you gaggle girls. This is

16:27

going to come back at you cuz somebody else will be talking about you the next time there's a group out there." And I would let it go. I don't think I would

16:33

address it if it hadn't been for the time clock thing. Well, I think what's interesting though is you may not

16:38

realize this, but you you actually put a squash on this stuff a lot in your practice.

16:45

So, it may not be um you may not be overtly catching like quote unquote

16:51

rumor or gossip, but when things are brought to you as

16:56

frustrations or I just don't know why this person's still on the team, blah

17:03

blah blah, you are shutting it down in a lot of ways. um and you're trying to

17:10

repaint a perspective which I think is really so not only you need to address this stuff but also when it comes to

17:17

your attention you're going yes that's one way of looking at it and you can choose to look

17:23

at all the negatives with that person or that situation or whatever or let me

17:29

tell you my perspective and you're bringing it back around to here's an alternate perspective to look at you

17:37

need to change your perspective. You need to see this differently because we talk culture all the time and

17:44

this is a culture issue. If it becomes the norm and acceptable, sure, you can

17:51

talk negatively about your team members as long as it's not on the clock. You can do whatever you want with that.

17:56

Well, now we have turned loose a culture that is ultimately in the long run very

18:02

damaging and we will have a hard time retaining employees. And that's where I

18:08

see it being the the most impactful to production. I've seen teams lose good

18:14

people because of nothing else than the rumor mill or if that person doesn't leave. I

18:22

see certain cultures crush an individual that I see potential in, but they can't

18:28

move past the things that are coming back to their ear and it just crushes that confidence. And while I could see

18:35

them getting to a level 10, they may make it to a level four because they just have a team that doesn't believe in

18:41

them. And so to me, by stopping the actual negative gossip or reframing it,

18:48

we're actually trying to reset a culture that sees things more positively.

18:55

So I think um couple of thoughts on that. Number one, I think what helps me

19:00

do that is knowing my team members. So again, knowing personalities and things like that. That's why we team build.

19:06

That's why we, you know, because I want to make sure if I am going to reframe and defend somebody, they have earned

19:14

that at least in my eyes. And it's like, yeah, if I could even defend that person, then that's a problem. Then I'm

19:19

like, why is this person on the team? Yeah. But at this point, if you're telling me that this person's either basically what

19:24

you're alluding to is they are not bright enough to do this job or they're

19:30

um not they're lazy or whatever. And to me, I'm like, but if I thought they were

19:36

truly lazy, would I have them on my team? No. So, I do need to do my due diligence to make sure that this person

19:42

isn't lazy, right? Um or that, you know, to me, usually a ceiling issue. I'm like, okay, we all

19:48

have a ceiling in something. How could I repurpose and tweak this so that this person who is not successful at this

19:55

role or at this task is not continually being stuck in the task? or the person

20:01

that's complaining. Are you just picking on them? And and but I got to know the person the personalities of the people

20:07

who come to me too because there are some people I'm like you have never come to me with anything. And if you're coming to me with this that speaks

20:13

volumes versus somebody else who I'm like again you again now who are you having a problem with? You quit picking

20:19

on her. I tossed you off the ledge on her and you're picking on this one. Um which I think is what happened in the

20:24

summer because I wasn't there. Yeah. And there was no way to squash these things. Um, but I would say like

20:33

maybe I'm not I I will tell you the good and the bad of what I do. I think number one, the good comes from me.

20:42

The goal for me is going I'm trying to get somewhere

20:47

and you're getting in the way of that with your childishness. So for example, we are trying to

20:54

um you know, we just got this new uh weave can now do this function for us,

21:01

but that's going to mean we've got to change this verbage and we've got to add that paperwork and instead of this link,

21:06

we've got to send that link and go make it happen. And then you come back to me, well, Amy was supposed to find out about

21:13

the link, but she didn't. But then now Susie put in the link, but she didn't put it on the paperwork, too. She only

21:19

put it here but not on her website. And what is the solution? What are we doing?

21:26

Cuz I don't have time for this. Like you vented it. Have you asked? Let me ask Susie. Okay. Yeah, I'll look into

21:33

it. I'll get back with you. Susie, why didn't you put it on both? Well, I tried to, but I tried to email your husband

21:39

and he hasn't emailed me back. Okay. So, complainer, she's trying.

21:44

Yeah. Or complainer, she didn't know. She's never done this before. she didn't realize it had to be on the website,

21:49

too. Is it that big a deal to just tell her going forward? Or if this is the fourth time she's

21:54

missed it, like this is the fourth update we've done and she's still like how that's a different issue. But that's not what we're talking about here.

22:01

If that's the case, we can't seem to get it out by time three, then this person's not going to be in charge of that,

22:06

right? Then we already know going forward. So like to me, it's a problem-solving thing.

22:11

Yeah. And I I'll listen to your belly ache for a minute, but then I need to do my due diligence and going, "Okay, but I

22:17

know Sandy isn't lazy. There's a reason why she's not been able to do this,

22:23

right?" Um, so I think that's where for me, the good thing is I I guess I'm not even

22:28

viewing it as squashing a rumor mill. I'm viewing it as like, "Let's go." Yeah.

22:33

I'm paying for this new feature. You people are wasting my money. Like, let's go and get this underway. I don't have

22:38

time for She did, you did, I did. like one of you people needs to fix this and so how are we fixing it? What is your

22:44

roadblock? Let's get to that. Is it all emotion or is it logistics as well? I think I will admit the one thing that

22:50

I do very poorly and I need I've had to catch myself and I'm constantly I think

22:57

sometimes when I have these talks about reframing I do inadvertently. I think

23:02

I'll try to give you know me big on examples. It's why we have this podcast. But if like if somebody's complaining about Amy, I'm like, I know, but do you

23:09

remember when Jenny did that, too? Yeah. And so Jenny, this is not Jenny. Jenny

23:16

did that. Remember we had to pull her off of this, but you like Jenny, so you were very patient with Jenny. How's

23:21

Jenny's situation different than Amy? So please, like, you vented it now, but I'm going

23:26

to ask you to give Amy the same graces you gave Jenny. Inadvertently, now I've been talking about Jenny behind the back. Yeah. And I feel like I I tend to

23:33

do that and then afterwards I'm like I'm the one stirring the pot myself in this conversation. My goal was not to

23:40

stir the pot. My goal was to say we are none of us are above this. Yeah. And you showed grace in this situation

23:46

or this is how we pivoted from this situation. But then by me giving examples I'm like uh

23:52

then those examples now are negative talk. Yeah. But you it's not wasn't the intent but

23:57

it could be misconstrued as that with the right person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to me, you're right.

24:06

These conversations are exhausting. Even if it's coming from a well-meaning team

24:12

member that's like so and so did this wrong and this wrong and this wrong or like my manager in the example that at

24:17

the beginning you know I think team members are wanting things to be done

24:24

right and to be done well but there's an uplifting way to do that

24:34

and there is a deconstructive way to do that and it's the deconstru destructive way that is very

24:42

um it's got this negative ripple effect where destructive it's destructive.

24:49

It is um and I have seen I can't tell you how many times I've seen practices

24:55

lose good team members because they're just like I'm too old for that. I I'm

25:01

sorry. I love the doctor, love the patients, but honestly, I just can't put

25:07

up with all of this negative chatter. I I empathize with that and I understand

25:13

that. And so I think what we end up doing over the long haul is then we end

25:19

up attracting a bunch of team members that have either thick skin that can

25:24

take it or we have a bunch of team members that buy into it and they're part of it as well

25:29

which and then there's your culture ship. Your culture was fine but then now Sally was like I can't do this. This is

25:36

juvenile. I'm not dealing with this. Sally leaves. you hire the next young thing and now she's walking into a culture where she's like, "Oh, are they

25:42

talking about me in the parking lot?" And either she leaves or she gets to go, "Okay, well, hey, if that's your

25:48

faction, this is my faction. I'm going to talk about these people." So, you now set the tone of a culture that it's like

25:54

this is okay. Yeah. And that is very uh it's a long process to undo. It's a painful process. How

26:01

many more people are you going to lose? Like it is counterproductive. Yeah. And I would say um one of the

26:09

things so obviously one of my pieces of advice was you can't ignore it and I still stand by that. But I would say

26:14

also you've got to be willing to,

26:19

as awful as it sounds, look directly at that person and go, you're part of the problem. Yeah.

26:25

And that's super uncomfortable. And we're like, but how is that helpful? Well, it's helpful because you're

26:32

telling that person, I disagree with you right now. and I don't like the way that you're handling this and I view you

26:39

right now as the problem. So I think sometimes where I get a little bit like cuz then if that person

26:45

not going to turn on me and if they're a valuable person on my team in other ways even though they are clearly you know um

26:52

detracting from their uh positives um but am I going to spark something else

26:58

now? I think that's where for me I'm like I want to have that conversation. I think could we I would think I would

27:05

word it more as like okay so Amy's the problem. Amy's bugging you with this.

27:10

What do you think your role is? Yeah. And so how are we and and I'll talk to

27:16

Amy, but what do you think Amy would say your role is? Cuz you know Amy doesn't think she's doing anything wrong. Yeah.

27:22

So clearly she is doing some things wrong and I will talk to her about that. But I'm going to ask her the same. What what do you think your contribution is

27:27

to this? Or what do you think is your solution moving forward? Yeah. And then a first solution is well and he's got to be fired. We talked

27:34

about that in a previous episode like okay well that's not happening. So what is a reasonable way to move forward

27:41

here? I do think and you recently had a a conversation similar to what I'm about to say here. I think the reason I

27:49

suggested that the practice owner may have to get involved in some situations is because the practice owner can look

27:57

at that person that's been running their mouth negatively and go, first of all,

28:03

that's really hurtful to me. Um, I think I deserve more respect than that. And

28:10

what I want from you going forward, the next time you're thinking something

28:16

negative or making negative assumptions or you've got questions that you just don't understand why I'm doing certain

28:23

things a certain way or why Amy's doing things a certain way, come to me. Don't

28:28

run your mouth talking about speculating to all the co-workers. You come to me

28:34

and ask me. And that's my expectation of you going forward. And by the way, I'm disappointed that you didn't do that.

28:41

That instead you chose to turn and talk to other people about it negatively.

28:46

That had a negative ripple effect. And I'm disappointed that that was your go-to. The practice owner can do that in

28:52

a way that an office manager cannot do. She can try, but it does not bear the

28:59

same weight. That would be like in my family, my oldest daughter, Cozette,

29:04

telling our younger one, "Hey, I'm really disappointed that you called me stupid."

29:10

Okay. The little one's going to be like, "All right. Yeah, you know, sorry." I guess when mama comes in and there's

29:18

consequences and I say, "I expect for you to never call your sister stupid again." That bears a different weight.

29:24

And I think it's shut it's going to shut down rumors or gossip or culture issues

29:30

much faster if the practice owner can look at somebody and say, "I need you to

29:35

change this." And I think we have a better chance of that person actually changing from that. Yeah. But you've got to know your team.

29:41

You've got to know. I think the conversation that I know you're talking about in my office, I actually opted to

29:47

uh I took that person to lunch and yeah, it did kind of chap my head some that I'm

29:53

paying for your lunch and to have this conversation. But knowing her, I knew

29:59

like I didn't want to just have it in the consult room. Like I thought it would be better to get off the premises,

30:04

sit and have a chat and then kind of really hear her out and kind of go, "Okay, well, what are your concerns?" So

30:09

once I realized all her concerns were nonsense and made up rumor mill stuff, that's when I was like, "Okay, well,

30:16

this is really disappointing to me because I expected better. And if you guys are doing it under the guise of

30:22

saying you've got my back, how does it help my back then I've got all of these headaches now?"

30:27

Because y'all chose to instead of asking questions or think about it strategically, it was easier just to

30:32

point fingers and like you said, speculate and assume negatively negatively. And I don't I feel like I

30:39

I've done I didn't deserve that. And I've you know unless you are an owner that you do make

30:46

shady like you know stupid decisions. You've earned that. You've earned that. But I'm like I know I have not earned this. Um and so please

30:54

don't I'm I'm really disappointed that I have done everything I can to always show that I've got y'all's back.

31:00

Yeah. And you're not able to give me one example of where I haven't. And she would have told me. She would have told me. And that that again goes back to

31:06

knowing your personalities and and having relationships with your team members. Yeah. Um Okay. Any other rumor mill?

31:14

Uh the other example that was recent was a newer team member member that is an

31:22

uber flegmatic team member but very knowledgeable, just very quiet and

31:28

unassuming and slower. You know, a flaggmatic is slower

31:33

to onboard, slower to train. They will get it, but it takes them a minute. And we've got to give them that space and

31:40

that that ability to grow. And on this particular team, lots of strong movers

31:47

and shakers and like let's go go team. And

31:52

there basically very quickly became became the assumption this girl is not going to cut it

31:59

which is which can happen on a very strong mover shaker team and you bring on a flegmatic.

32:04

I think that's happened every time we've brought on a flmatic. Every time like I'm like this person's going to get run

32:09

over. Yeah. Like you're going to be like on the highway and when you're But so me knowing that

32:16

and having gone through that we did have to have multiple conversations about that's okay. give this person some space

32:21

or and you know being being aware of it and um anticipating it and kind of having

32:28

those conversations like going okay for this person this is going to be our you know normally we might do a 3-w week but

32:35

this person hasn't ever worked in pediatrics before and they're afflematic they're going to take a little bit longer they're not going to communicate

32:41

as much so we need to be the ones to communicate and say are you okay are you okay are you okay and kind of put those

32:46

steps in place pursue them yeah yeah and What happened in this particular situation is there there was

32:54

a couple strong team members that made that assumption pretty quickly and then they

33:00

would then go and talk to all of the other team members uh both business and

33:06

clinically. So it's kind of officewide. So then when I'm there in that practice,

33:12

I'm checking in with every team member and I sat in with the newer flaggmatic

33:19

team member and she just very honestly told me like I know that so and so

33:25

there's another team member. She was like, I know that so and so sees my value and I know she's got my back. Um

33:32

but ultimately if she were to ever go, I'd be on an island by myself. And so if

33:39

she goes, I go. It's basically what she told me. But it's all because rumors get

33:45

back to this lady. And they she knew she knew that essentially because of these

33:51

two key people that are movers and shakers and like go girl, like get with it because they didn't like her. They

33:59

then started talking negatively about her all the time or making comments like cuz I know we we've gone through it in our office

34:05

where with Yeah. don't put that patient with her. She's too slow and then we'll end up having to see all the rest of

34:11

these patients or make sure she doesn't, you know, get involved in this because so it's like even when they are not even

34:16

realizing, it's not like they're going out to the parking lot to talk about her, but little comments like in huddle or when you're making rug slips or when

34:22

you're, you know, where is she? Yeah, of course, we're all having to do these she's taken so long on that patient. The

34:27

rest of us have to and just grumbling. And so those little things like even if it was like CL or uh sorry operative

34:34

assistants that aren't really interacting with this team member now they're all going, "Oh, you got a slow

34:39

one over there. You got a Oh, that's too bad. That sucks for y'all." Or you going to let Kuba know she needs to go?

34:44

Yeah. What's Kuba going to do to make sure she pulled her weight? And it's like for the love of God.

34:50

I know. I know. Well, and then you I mean, think of all the time that goes into bringing this person on to the

34:56

team, all the other people that you've looked at. this person has risen to the top and now you're at risk of all that

35:03

time and energy even attracting them to the practice. It's at risk now because there's been this group think that's

35:09

been developed that she's not the right fit for the practice and unbeknownst to

35:15

the owner. Yeah. You know, so the owner's like, "It's hunky dory. It's fine." And then all

35:21

this is where they get slapped with why did this person resign? And you know those sweet fugmatics aren't going to

35:28

throw anybody under the bus on the way out. They won't. The owners never know

35:33

that this was an issue with the whole team ganging up on this person.

35:39

I just Yeah. I I I hate it because it's one of those situations where in most situations the practice owner is unaware

35:48

and now they're back to being short staffed. They're back to having to h,

35:54

you know, put the job post back up. They're back to having to onboard and train somebody, which is so expensive.

35:59

All the ex extra drama, too, now because now you're a short hand. So, even though it was these two that were, you know,

36:06

ganging up against that one, now they're ganging up against each other because now they're back to again, you know, oh wait, you didn't this and I got stuck

36:13

doing this and you didn't. I'm like, if you just given it a damn minute, she would have helped you. You just needed

36:18

to give her a minute and she could have been super helpful here. and y'all chased her away and now you're back to

36:23

bitching at each other for not. Um, so in both cases, cuz I I don't think I I

36:28

wanted to ask you and then I distracted myself for this case and then also the first case where the the manager is like

36:34

watching these women, what happened? How did they resolve that? Yeah. So, in the um group one, we'll

36:40

start with that one. And that was the first example of the parking lot conversation. The manager

36:45

had to call in an a a family member to come in cuz she's like, "I got to I

36:51

can't call and talk to them about this. I got to leave my kid." So she didn't bug the dog with it. No.

36:56

Bless her. I know. And showed up and squashed it. Um how very aggressive.

37:02

What did she She pulled each of them individually in

37:08

and said, "This is absolutely unacceptable. This is I can't put up

37:14

with this anymore. Y'all y'all complain about this being like an awful environment. You just, oh, this is such

37:19

a stressful place to work." You're causing it and it's unacceptable. This cannot happen again. I better never see,

37:26

you know, conversations or hear conversations like this. So, she individually squashed it with each

37:32

person very firmly because I mean, keep in mind this poor woman has been putting

37:38

out all these fires like she's tired. She just had to leave her kid who is

37:44

recovering from surgery to run up to the office and handle these children.

37:50

So, so let me ask you this. If cuz in in my office like if

37:56

what would I do? Say she could she say she didn't have a family member and she couldn't come up and so she's like, "Hey

38:02

doc, these girls are outside." What what would you advise one of us to do? So if it were a doc in this situation

38:08

that became aware of it or let's say you're walking out to grab something out of your car and you're like, what's going on here? Then to me, I would still

38:17

immediately address it individually and pull each person, hey, what's going on?

38:23

Why were y'all chatting out in the parking lot? Um, it's not patient care

38:28

comes first. I expect that to never happen again. And we'll almost like just

38:34

squash it that day. Stop it. This conversation needs to go no nowhere else. And then if it is truly a culture

38:41

problem, which in this case this is four employees in the back parking. This is a culture problem. It's not a singular

38:46

person problem. Then we need to deal with the culture separately. But that day it needs to be squashed. So, if it

38:53

wasn't the manager, the practice owner stepping in and going either individually or if he walked up, he or

38:58

she walked up on the conversation to go, "What's going on here? What are we talking about?" It's very hard to come

39:04

up with a lie quickly. Oh, just talking about lunch while we've got patients on the floor. Get back in the building. You

39:11

know, so if nothing else, just stop the conversation. I see you. Um, for the practice owner, the practice manager

39:18

knew the con I mean the Yeah. office manager knew the content of the conversation. So, she was able to

39:23

address it very directly. Most of the time, the practice owner is unaware of that. Um, but stop the conversation and

39:30

then address the culture problem separately. Now, and I think that's that's important to say there because I could just see

39:36

myself nipping it in the bud and again sticking to just are y'all have y'all lost your minds like you're on the

39:41

clock? Don't let this happen again. But I think what I would have to tell myself is don't just leave it at that. You need

39:48

to circle back around and maybe then the next day I'm pulling in those people going, "Okay, tell me what was

39:54

and frankly I wouldn't even just talk to those four. I would talk to the entire team to the whole what happened, what's going

39:59

on and see what kind of data gathering you get and then go from there." Yep. You have to. You have to. You have to. And it's no

40:06

fun and you hate to waste time on it, but I promise you it will save you time and money and productivity in the long

40:13

run. So she squashed it that day and we are in the process of getting a culture meeting on the schedule. Now in

40:20

conjunction to her squashing it, I also had a separate conversation with kind of

40:28

the instigator of it all. Um, so she squashed it and I came behind and

40:35

had a conversation with kind of the epicenter of that particular um, scenario and it was very much

40:44

just trying to paint a different perspective for her. Um, TBD if it's going to work

40:51

TBD cuz we haven't had the culture reset. And by the way, in that culture

40:56

reset meeting, um, there will be direct consequences because I'm like, I'm tired

41:02

of playing. We've talked about it till we're blue in the face and y'all aren't listening. Um, so there will be direct

41:08

consequences where if this office manager is being pulled into drama, bonuses go away that month. Everybody

41:16

just gone. We're not going to pay bonuses out to people that are causing headaches and are talking negatively

41:21

about one another. So either this is fixed or you start losing um bonus and you can be sent home without pay for

41:29

being caught in direct gossip conversation. So I know a lot of us are going to sit there and go but what if this person

41:34

leaves? What if people leave? And I know your answer is going to be but don't you want them gone? They're the but then we're back to we're starting over which

41:41

I guess your point is you're going to be starting over anyway cuz you're going to burn out on somebody who you're going to either retain the bad

41:46

apple or you're going to retain ones that can be coached and get a better apple in there. Yeah.

41:52

What I don't want happening and what I see happening so often is we we just

41:57

retain the bad ones and then we just keep adding bad ones. Well, and and you're going to end up

42:03

adding a bad one cuz they're not bad until they get into that culture and then they turn bad. Yes.

42:09

Yeah. So, if you're going to lose them one way or the other, retain the ones that are coachable and willing to be

42:14

positive and let the bad apples go. Now, sometimes if they're all coachable

42:19

enough and if there's good boundaries and all of that, then they'll write their ship and they'll they'll get back

42:25

in line, but you have to keep a close eye on it, which is where I am now. Yeah. Nobody's left since my uh very direct

42:33

conversations with se several of them. Uh but I have been keeping a very close eye. Yeah, it's exhausting.

42:40

It's exhausting. It is. But it's part of the game unfortunately that we have to

42:45

play to make sure that we're running a successful practice. Thanks for joining the conversation

42:52

today. We hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone, but we

42:57

also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your practice.

43:03

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43:22

As always, please know that we are rooting for you today as you manage your

43:27

dental drama.