Forty-Seven Years in Dentistry = Wisdom You Need

Thank goodness that Dr. Jones is back in town! After 47 years in dentistry, Dr. Kuba and Bethany have burning questions for him, so Bethany traps him in the studio to record. In this episode, he answers questions like, “With four kids and twelve grandkids, would you recommend dentistry to any of your kids/grandkids?, “For new owners, what do you think is the wisest investment?,” and “Are you a member of organized dentistry, why or why not?”. He tackles these questions and more. Listen closely to forty-seven years of wisdom! 

Previous Episodes Worth Revisiting: 

Quality Referral Processes for Premium Patient Care

Dr. Jones Discusses Building the Practice You Envision 

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then
0:09
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba
0:14
as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama.
0:22
Let's get started. All right, Dad. Back again. Good morning. How are you? Good. Once again, Koopa's teed us up for
0:31
some great questions. She just keeps them coming. Does she just sit around thinking, "How
0:37
can I stump the old man?" What questions can you ask that he won't answer?
0:43
We'll see how far she goes. Or will we'll laugh like, "Oh, he's lost his mind."
0:50
But she has some good ones. She's got some good ones. Always she does. So, I'm going to just It's I would
0:56
say not connected anyway. They're all kind of disjointed, but I feel like each of them are really good questions. So,
1:03
this will be a good broad one to open up with, which is you've got four kids. I'm the only one
1:09
that went into dental, right? You've got 12 grandkids. Um, would you
1:16
recommend dental to any one of your grandkids? Why or why not? Oh yeah, that
1:22
that is a great question and I always ask or or people ask about your kids.
1:28
Yeah. Are any of your kids in in dentistry? And I'll tell them none of them became a
1:36
dentist and and I don't know why. I'll say I don't know if I just was griped
1:43
and belly achd and you know why didn't any of them follow me except you you
1:50
know um so I for you guys I apologize if I painted a
1:56
poor picture of dentistry back then but in the early days it's a struggle you know it it really is a struggle
2:04
and I'm so grateful that you did because It's a great feel.
2:10
It's a great field for you. You're definitely needed in this day and the time this day and time. But our kids, so
2:17
we have 12. So I would have Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, two of your brothers went
2:24
into the car industry and then your uh younger sister is in a surgical tech.
2:30
So, uh, I'm glad that you followed me and have. But, but, uh, is it a good
2:37
feel for our kids today? Absolutely. It's probably better today than it was
2:44
uh, when I started. Yeah. Um, the technology, uh, the education,
2:50
you know, really when I think we talked about before when when I started out, there weren't a lot of consultants.
2:58
there weren't a lot of people with a wealth of knowledge to help you overcome the struggles that you have in in
3:04
dentistry. So, you just had to figure it out and make a lot of mistakes
3:10
and repeat a lot of mistakes. And we've talked about a lot of mine, so let's not do that again. Such great day.
3:18
But, um, today it's just an awesome feel.
3:23
If if if I had grandchildren going into it, it's a great way to make a living.
3:28
Yeah. A great income. The lifestyle is so much better than our uh friends in the in the
3:37
medical industry, particularly if you're in surgery and you're having to do hospital calls and posttop checks. And
3:45
so it's it's just wonderful. Uh the technology today is is so great.
3:53
And it's a wonderful it's a you can make a great living. You can have a great lifestyle and you can help a lot of
4:00
people. Yeah. And and the older I get, it's I think that's what really drives me is the
4:08
impact that we can make. We have a lot of people that are just when we go over their treatment plan
4:14
and in Arkansas it is a lot of dentures. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but we're changing their lives
4:20
and they are just tearful because they they're in with a
4:25
a mouth that's just just a mess. They're embarrassed.
4:31
So, we can l literally change their lives. So, yeah, I'd love to see
4:36
grandkids. We have 12 and our oldest one is Ashton. And we thought for a while
4:43
she was going to go into dentistry and follow her gram and then she slipped off in the medical
4:49
the medical field. So she is a fourth year student at US
4:57
uh going to go into OBGYn next year. So there's still hope for
5:02
some of the others but it would be your kids or Yeah. So, yeah, we've got Ashton, the
5:09
oldest, at 25 and then all the way down to six, right?
5:15
We know Ashton's brother, Kaden, didn't go into dental. Um, but everybody else
5:22
really has a chance at choosing it as a career. So,
5:30
and more um of those your kids would be more likely because you're
5:36
in it deep into it. Yeah. The others are a step away.
5:41
True. Because they're not their parents are daily in listening to dentistry and talk
5:46
listening to your parents talk about dentistry. Yeah. So, we'll see. Maybe someone Yeah. By
5:52
the time I retire, let's see. Your youngest is six. If I could hang on till she gets out of dental school, I'll be
5:59
94. Yeah. Yeah. It's just that long. You got it. Yeah. I was in a class
6:06
several weeks ago here in Dallas and it was the Southwest Dental
6:12
Conference. Oh, yeah. And I was sitting with next to a guy, 82. Wow. Still practicing full-time. I said, "I
6:19
want to be you when I grow up." So there there are those of us who yeah
6:25
and again the fact that it is again a career that you can last that long in
6:32
whereas there's plenty that you can't last that long in. I had a conversation with an older
6:37
gentleman in the office the other day because people always ask how much longer particularly new patients are you
6:43
going to be around? Yeah, I'm going to be and I said this is not a physically demanding job.
6:48
Yeah. I said, I get up out of a chair, I sit down. I get up out of a chair and sit down. Walk down the hall. Said, I
6:54
can do this for ever. So, that's that's one of the great things about it's not
6:59
physically demanding. Demanding. Yeah. And if you protect your body early
7:04
enough, back and neck, as long as you're doing that, then Yeah. The partner I had in my practice
7:11
years ago is 11 12 young and he's already had to
7:17
retire neck surgery, wrist surgery. So there's some that are
7:22
unfortunate that it does take its its toll just the posture. Yeah. U but it is I agree with you 100%.
7:30
I I think Dr. Kuba has asked me that as well. You know, would you encourage your kids to go on? I'm like absolutely. It's
7:36
a fantastic career. You know, you think back on um I talk about this a lot when
7:42
we're talking about insurance and dental insurance and why it was brought to the
7:47
forefront and you know back in the 50s60s you know dentistry was you have a
7:52
tooth that goes bad you pull it right and so we had a very ad dentilist population and so this was kind of a
7:59
public health initiative that they brought there was medical insurance and they're like let's do something like
8:04
that for dental so that people will go to the dentist more regularly and hopefully prevent losing teeth. And so
8:11
you think back and that was, you know, 70, 80 years ago. Yeah. Where the whole point was to try to get
8:18
people to not just pull teeth. And now you fast forward and you look at how much the industry has grown in what it
8:25
can offer and what it does and you're just how can an industry evolve
8:31
that much over a relatively short period of time? But it's really f it's a fascinating field
8:38
right to be in because of all the innovations and so it's just it's a good field.
8:44
It's yeah and will be yes I agree completely. Okay so that was
8:50
the first question which again yes great question
8:55
send your kids to dental school. Yes. Encourage more to go into dentistry and dental school, dental hygiene programs.
9:03
We need dental hygienists um out even I'm always encouraging people get
9:09
your foot in the door with dental assisting, right? You know, if you're interested in a medical field, try dental assisting. A
9:17
lot of people will go the medical assistant route, which is fine, but I'm like, try dental assisting. So
9:24
because um I I I think there are more options as a dental assistant because
9:29
I've had dental assistants that have fallen in love with dentistry and then gone on to dental hygiene school.
9:36
Yeah. Yes. So there are options. I have a hygienist now that's taking a class a semester. We
9:43
have a new dental school in Arkansas. Yes. And she wants to Well, she wants to go
9:48
to dental school. And I'm like, boy, that would be perfect. Yeah. For if I do retire because she would
9:56
naturally come back to our practice because she's been there, the patients know her. So, it would be a great
10:02
transition for us. So, anyway, so there are lots of lots of options.
10:07
Yeah. And it doesn't have to be the field where you're, you know, you if you go to college, you immediately go to
10:14
dental school. I sit with so many that are assisting that are in what they call their gap year or two
10:20
and they're, you know, studying for exams and they're trying to figure out
10:26
what schools they're going to apply to. They're learning about the application process, you know, and I sat with one
10:32
recently that is just phenomenal. She's going to be great. But I was telling
10:37
her, I was like, "Hey, you should look. There's a new dental school in Arkansas." And so we were talking about that and um she said she learned a lot
10:44
this first year. She only applied to three dental schools and she said she didn't realize that that was a mistake
10:51
that you have to apply to multiple uh and she got interviews, you know, from
10:57
that which she was really excited about. But even just, you know, the path to dental school doesn't have to be this graduate from
11:04
college and immediately you're in a program. you can still get in even if you take a gap year or two or three or
11:12
whatever. Yeah. So, I I love the flexibility that you have to get
11:17
into dentistry. So, yeah, there's multiple even fantastic office managers
11:22
that make a career out of being an office manager. So, it's just there's a
11:28
lot of potential. Instability, I think. Yeah.
11:34
But it's it's it's a fun industry. It really is. going to like it. Okay. So, her second question is for new
11:40
owners, what do you think is the wisest investment? So, when you think about
11:47
being a new practice, is it do you as soon as you got a little bit of money, do you go purchase a piece of equipment?
11:55
Do you invest in education? Like, how would you advise somebody in that way?
12:01
Okay. I I think I think the natural default would be I
12:08
have to have the newest technology. Yeah. The greatest technology to be to
12:13
be the best. But really the basic needs of being a dentist haven't
12:18
changed much in in 48 years. You need an air compressor to drive a hand piece.
12:24
Yeah. You need lighting and you need suction and you can do just and a few tools, you
12:31
know. hand tools and extraction tools, but beyond that,
12:37
every everything else that's involved has made us more efficient for sure
12:42
and made it easier. When I when I graduated from
12:48
dental school, the protocol that we were taught in Indo was three one-hour
12:55
appointments to do endo. You did this on appointment one, this on appointment
13:00
two, then you finished on appointment three. Well, no wonder. Endo had a horrible reput reputation. So now fast
13:09
forward and you, you know, you can do that in 45 minutes, you know, with all
13:14
of the technology. So you naturally think, well, technology is going to make me
13:21
the man or woman that I need to be in dentistry. But I really don't think that's it. You could also choose um the
13:30
technology, the computers, all all of our data that we have certainly makes it
13:36
more efficient. But just 5 years ago, we still had all paper charts and we were
13:42
doing great. Was it messy and cumbersome? Sure. But it was still effective and sometimes I miss those
13:48
paper chart paper charts. Um, so as I thought about this, I think two things
13:54
for a new person. One would be invest in your people. Yes.
14:00
People, people, people. I could have I have the I could have all of the tools.
14:06
All of the expensive tools. And we have some of those. Uh but if you don't have
14:12
people with butts in the seat and people that like to come back and they never
14:18
like what we do as a dentist, they don't like the dentistry, but if they like the
14:24
people around you and the people around you can support you and and explain
14:32
sometimes if you're if if they're unhappy with what you've
14:38
done. Yeah. they can cushion that. So anyway, so I think people number one, people are your
14:44
most important investment because it's a team. It's not a you're not going to be
14:51
able to do this by yourself. Yes, you can't answer the phone. You can, you know, you need good people to run there.
14:58
So for our practice, and I've said this before, a guy or a girl could come into my practice and probably produce almost
15:05
as much as I do because it's not about me. Yeah. It's about the team that I have.
15:12
And so that's it. Then then second, I would get help from a professional like
15:19
you outside the practice. Yeah. Because you don't need to waste all of your time trying to figure it all out.
15:27
Yeah. You're making your money when you're at the chair. So let someone else help you
15:32
with hiring and choosing the right people and creating your brand and
15:39
solving problems for you. Solving problems if you tried to do it by yourself,
15:46
you're just it's nonproductive. Yeah. And it's not the skill set you were trained No. to do.
15:52
Well, a and and if you're part of the problem, Yeah. I like this. So you're part of the
15:59
problem. you're the owner and you're part of the problem. The same brain that
16:04
got you in that problem is not the same brain that can get you out. You got to have another brain come in and look at
16:10
this. So, so I would invest in your people in my people and I invest in
16:15
having someone help me Yeah. out a consultant run this practice, you
16:22
know. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's such a good point with um you know you and I were chatting last night about a startup that
16:29
I had worked with and um great great guy. Yeah. You know uh and I jumped in with him
16:37
about one year in and he just didn't even know what was possible
16:42
with the practice. you know, he his vision of how much he could grow or how
16:49
quickly he could get there was so limited, right? Because he's never owned the business
16:54
before. How would he know that? And then when you talk to other buddies, the perspective is so different. You're
17:01
like, what's the what's the truth? You know, what's the norm here? And so even
17:06
me thankfully being able to work with him so early into his practice just being able to set for him reality as I
17:12
look at his practice as I look at the market to go this is what you should expect and this is what you should be
17:18
aiming for and he's like that high couldn't even couldn't believe it couldn't yeah couldn't even believe it and I
17:23
think he would have shot himself real short without that outside perspective to go hey you're dreaming way too small
17:30
buddy like dream dream dream bigger but dream realistically. I don't want you aiming
17:37
so high that you're disappointed, but let's set some realistic goals and let's figure out how to get there. And he
17:44
achieved all of those, you know, and blew his own mind. And so even just that
17:49
outside perspective to go, what should I be looking at? What what
17:54
should the practice be doing? Um, you know, how do I hit those markers? And
17:59
getting that earlier on in the startup. Oh yeah, is so helpful. And you may not need it
18:06
forever. You may get just enough help and support that you're like, "Okay, now we're rocking and rolling. We're feeling
18:13
pretty good and I know how to run this thing now because you're learning as you go." Um, and I would agree completely on
18:20
the people to to me it's so I I've got a startup that I'm working with now and
18:28
she's a very timid um very timid practice owner, nervous
18:35
just about everything and and I get it. it's a huge investment, you know, and so I knew I'm like, I have got to find her
18:43
a standout person. And you know, a lot of startups, at least in the metroplex, will start with
18:49
one person, right? Somebody that can assist and somebody that can do business. Exactly. So, I'm like, I got one shot, you know,
18:56
to make this a great employee for this person. And so, I was real picky with my team
19:03
and who they were selecting and who they were sending along. I needed her to be go get her cuz she's pairing up with
19:09
nervous Nelly practice owner that if I get another another nervous Nelly in there, it's going to fail,
19:15
right? And so I was so thrilled. I still look at this person and I'm like, I know that
19:21
the Lord dropped this person out of God for might be an angel. It might be an angel in disguise because
19:28
she had all the skills. Yeah. But she's got that gogetter.
19:33
You know, she's already asking me, the practice isn't even open yet. She's like, Bethany, let's talk marketing.
19:39
Wow. Because she's like, I've worked with a startup before, thank God. And she's like, I know how
19:45
important it is to get out in the community and hit the pavement, and I'm ready to hit the pavement. And I'm like, wow,
19:51
this person, this one singular employee is going to help is going to make that person successful.
19:57
Yep. So investing in those people, recognizing I need that talent or am I
20:04
deficient and when I'm looking to hire somebody even if it's a little out out of budget,
20:10
right? I'm going to have to spend on Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I think um when we I don't I'm not
20:18
sure how it is today in dental school, but really dental school the main focus
20:23
was we have to develop your clinical skills. Yeah. And really beyond that, they didn't
20:30
train teach us anything. And and in the old days, I think it's changed some. It
20:37
we were just silos. We were by ourselves. You didn't really communicate much. I
20:44
think the younger people communicate more. And again, that's good and bad because if you're getting all your
20:51
education or your insight from your people that are in the same boat with you.
20:56
Um, so anyway, I I think you you come out,
21:02
you don't really know anything. Yeah. And sometimes we come out with
21:08
the attitude of I know everything. But you don't even know what you don't know. Which is a dangerous position to be in
21:15
to assume that I'm going to go out here
21:21
all by myself. And that just may be some personalities
21:27
are are that that way, but I was in dental school. I was a lot like your
21:32
little nervous Nelly. Yeah. Not assertive. You know, if a patient
21:39
didn't show up for an appointment, would I call them? Well, heck no. I'm
21:44
not going to geez pick up the phone and call that patient and say, "Where are you?"
21:50
So, there's there are parts of me that that's still within me. Yeah. That's a that's a a part of of who I am.
21:58
So it shows up uh in practice
22:04
but I have people around me like if I assume that this patient is not going to
22:10
go through with treatment but I'll present it but I'm thinking
22:15
and then they'll call and say hey they're moving over you know because I have those people we call her we call
22:21
them closers. They're great closers. In fact, we had a patient in
22:26
hadn't been in in a couple years. Works with your brother. Yeah. And in the car industry
22:33
and he needed an extraction and he didn't want to do an implant. I'm going to do a bridge and
22:41
Melissa was doing the treatment plan and he said, "You need to be in the car industry.
22:46
You he said you are the hammer." So, it's important to surround yourself
22:52
with people that are stronger than you because we don't
22:58
have to have it. I think that's it. We feel like when we're young and that
23:05
we've got to be the answer for everything that that you are the critical
23:11
cog in this machine and if you fail, it's
23:18
really it's your team. It's your team. I would quit dentistry if I didn't have my team literally.
23:25
Um I don't want to of course at my age, you know, it's not much of u but they
23:32
are just so so important. So the wisest investment would be your
23:38
your team and then getting out outside help. Don't be afraid to spend some
23:43
money cuz you will people like you will help prevent mistakes which is they can
23:49
be very costly and and just develop the team.
23:55
Yeah, for sure. I agree with you 100% on that. Um okay, so her third question is are
24:03
you a member of organized dentistry like the ADA, State Dental Association, etc.
24:08
Why or why not? I'm involved in the American Dental Association, Arkansas
24:14
State Dental Association, and the American um Academy of General Dentistry. So, I'm involved in three and
24:21
a half been I'm a lifetime members in all of them. All of them. Wow. And I thought about
24:28
that and I I think I like being involved with organizations that, you know, I'm
24:34
down in the nitty-gritty the dayto day with patients and these organizations
24:40
are like 30,000 ft up looking at dentistry as a whole. um and can see
24:46
trends and so I like having that knowledge and
24:52
having those people looking at the industry.
24:57
Um and also they're sources of great education. They're all educators
25:04
and they legislate for us at the state level and national level. They're, you
25:10
know, trying to protect our industry. So I I think they're very important. I've
25:15
noticed through the years at the state level, we had great turnouts for our
25:21
state dental meetings. Yeah. Less now. Sometimes I'm like embarrassed
25:27
because we brought in this great speaker. There might be a hundred of us.
25:32
And I'm like, man, and they put us in a 500 seat room.
25:38
You know how many people are coming? put us in a room. Put us in a room.
25:44
Um, so I think a lot of younger people now are getting their continuing ed
25:50
online. Yeah. So I don't know I don't know
25:55
statistically how involved the younger generation is in those organized, but I hope hope they
26:01
will because they're I know I hope it stays the norm because I I agree. I think there's just benefits
26:08
of having people up at that level that are still entrenched in dental. Like
26:13
it's all Oh, yeah. dental. And I think we run a risk if you start looking at kind of siloing off
26:20
your education and doing more online from various sources. They're all going
26:26
to have, you mentioned silo earlier, they're going to all have a siloed perspective
26:32
in the content that they're presenting. I think organized industry is is always
26:38
going to have a plethora of people looking at it from multiple angles and you can keep kind of that big picture
26:46
evaluation. Yeah, I think so. Um Okay, good. That's good to know. Um
26:52
hopefully our listeners cannot hear Harry Potter piano in the background. Um
26:58
all of Bethy's kids play the piano by learning by ear, so it's pretty impressive. Uh yes, it's sounding very
27:05
loud right now, but we'll we'll move on. Um the question four is if you had a
27:12
disagreement with a plan of care with a specialist, how would you or how have
27:19
you handled it in the past? And I thought about that and I don't think I've had a really big problem with
27:26
any specialist, but I thought, what if I what if I did? How would I approach it?
27:32
And I thought, well, I would approach them
27:38
with respect and honor because they have continued their
27:43
education and um so you've got to honor that and think, well, I sent them there
27:50
because I trusted them. Yeah. And now we have a disagreement. So, I
27:57
thought I would approach it with just a question, not um with any kind of attitude or but
28:04
just humbly say, "Hey, could you help me understand um this treatment that you're
28:10
proposing uh that you've recommended for my patient?" Because if I can understand
28:16
the reason for doing it, then I can help my patient understand it and it's a
28:22
win-win for all of us. And that just you're not saying why did you why would
28:29
you suggest this but you're just saying help me understand and what you're doing is just opening up the conversation
28:36
without any um accusation
28:42
but you're just saying help me. Yeah. You know from the to was it Tom Gur help
28:48
me help you help me help you. Um
28:53
because it's it's not going to end well if you just say, "Man, I just disagree
28:58
with this and you are wrong." You're going to need that person in the future. Yes.
29:04
This is an instance where maybe you disagree, but maybe you just need more
29:10
knowledge on it, right? Or in this conversation, maybe they can see your point of view or your patients
29:17
point of view. So I would just if you have a conflict and you probably will
29:23
just approach it humbly with respect. Hey, help me understand.
29:28
Yeah, I don't understand. Doesn't mean you're wrong. I just don't understand. Help me
29:35
and I'll help my patient understand it. And to have the conversation. I think a lot of people would probably avoid
29:42
right in that situation because it's like what do you do? I mean, I I can't disagree
29:47
with them now, but at the same time, I it messes up what I had planned for the patient,
29:53
and I could see a lot of people just retreating from that conversation. And I think it's
29:59
important to engage in the conversation at that point because you, like you said, you've got to have a good ongoing
30:05
relationship with this specialist. And rather than assuming that they just
30:11
made an egregious error here, it's better to pause and have the humble
30:17
conversation than to just blow past it and and not engage.
30:22
Yeah. Just don't make it confrontational. It doesn't have to be. It doesn't need to be. Yeah. um you're going to be in a
30:28
relationship with this person hopefully for a long time. So if you just approach it from I I just
30:36
need to understand I I don't understand and maybe you do but it's just the
30:42
attitude. Yeah. You go in into that with you know it's interesting because
30:47
thankfully I'm lucky enough to work with both general docs and lots of
30:52
specialists. I actually have more specialist um as clients than I do general dogs. And so I can see it from
30:59
their the specialist perspective. They want to hear from you,
31:05
right? They know that their business is built off of these referrals and these great
31:10
relationships. And I don't have a single specialist, at least as a client of mine, that would feel
31:18
threatened threatened by that. they they would feel awful if they knew that something went
31:24
wrong and or that there was some kind of disagreement and they never knew about it, right? So, every single specialist is so
31:31
focused on having good a good open communication relationship with the
31:36
people that refer to them. So, I think they would welcome the conversation. I think so, too.
31:42
Yeah. I think that's important to remember in the process that they would prefer the conversation than for you to
31:48
be unhappy, right? and not refer and because it's a livelihood for both both
31:54
of you guys. Yes, for sure. Um and then the other question that she
32:00
asked is what if another dentist threw you under the bus? What would you do?
32:07
Have you had that situation? I have in
32:12
a few times here in where I I practice.
32:17
So it was a pretty entrenched uh dental culture when I arrived there, you know,
32:24
over 20 years ago. But there were two two dentists. The practice that I bought started out
32:30
as two dentists. Then one of them became allergic to latex and uh quit dentistry. So then then there's
32:37
one left and he wasn't really very old, but he was just tired of dentistry. He was sub 60.
32:43
Yeah. And and I think everybody practiced pretty much the same way in this than
32:51
this small town. So then I come in and I was a little bit more progressive. Built
32:57
a brand new nobody had built a new building, dental building in that town in decades. So I come in and build this
33:05
big 3600 foot building. And so there is that immediate threat.
33:12
Mhm. Of course, you know, because it's a small town, limited um
33:17
number of patients, number of patients, and here's this guy. Who does he think he is? Even though I
33:24
grew up there, it was my hometown. Yeah. I don't think they wanted me back. So, yes. So, through the years, some
33:30
jabs and more recently from one of the guys and the staff heard
33:38
about it somehow. Yeah. He's made these comments to a patient maybe that left us and went over
33:45
there. He'd made these comments about us and thankfully I have a good staff they
33:51
take up for me. She called the dentist. Did she really? Amanda called the dentist.
33:56
Oh my goodness. And and his response well he needs to talk to me. And she said he doesn't even
34:03
know about it. Yeah. I I'm taking it upon myself. So then she
34:08
told me about it later. So in my particular case, I don't have to worry
34:14
too much. I got a good def defense around me. But again,
34:19
you know, it it would be a tough call. Yeah. And my non assertive self would be just
34:27
let it ride. Yeah. That's the way I would handle it. It's I'm going to sweep it under the rug and
34:33
let it go. But probably the correct response is again like approaching the
34:39
the specialist. I would call be non not confrontational
34:45
hot not hot at all but to just say hey can we talk about this you know I really
34:52
haven't done anything to you if anything now you have a new patient because of me
34:58
I'm helping you I'm helping your practice. Um, but it's that tough call and it does
35:05
even make me just kind of sick thinking about having to make that call. But it's one of those calls that
35:13
you you ought to make. You should do what I say. Don't do what I do.
35:19
That goes back to your original point. Hire good people to do it for you. Yeah. I mean, it really is.
35:26
But if you if you can non-confrontational like hey I don't understand you know
35:35
and everyone practices dentistry differently
35:40
and what I try to do when people come and they cuz I get them come the other
35:45
way right I don't like this and I'll say
35:50
no different really no different than what I'm going to do. Yeah, I'm you know they have a treatment plan
35:58
and I'll say I I agree. Yeah, I agree with their treatment plan.
36:03
And sometimes we'll be able to go ahead and then do that treatment plan. We'll get to do it in our office. And again, I
36:09
think that's not me, it's the team that makes it that makes it possible because really clinically I'm going to do the
36:17
same thing this other guy did. Yeah. So maybe we just wrap the presentation
36:22
up or maybe we listen better or maybe it's just that hearing it that
36:28
second time. Now they're ready to say, "Okay, now I'm going to move forward. I'm going to move forward, but I'm not
36:34
going back to the They rarely go back to the other person." And I think that's because of
36:40
our environment. Yeah. that our ladies do a really good job of explaining.
36:46
And just as I've said before, Melissa, primarily Melissa, Amanda also,
36:51
primarily Melissa will just go back over the treatment plan and the finances and
36:57
then she'll say, "Do you have any questions and then she sits
37:04
and she's not going to be the next person that speaks?" Yeah. Yeah. That silence is powerful. It is could
37:12
not do it. I you know me I could not do it. You'd be filling in the space.
37:18
We would be off for you. Well, how's your family? Well, you think about this. No, no, no. But Melissa just waits.
37:24
Yeah. Let them contemplate. Sometimes she'll say, "Sit. Think about it for a minute.
37:30
If you need to call someone, call someone and and then she'll they'll sh you know,
37:36
she'll come back and finish." So anyway, uh it's good to have people
37:41
that will do those things that maybe are just a stressor.
37:48
I cannot be a closer, you know. I cannot be a closer. I'm more than likely not going to call
37:54
the dentist that says something I'm just going to let it ride. Say God will take care of it.
38:00
But I'm not going to. And I I mean,
38:06
but you're you're the confrontation. I'm Yeah. I'm like confus I'm going to their house.
38:12
I'm going to show up and talk this out. I'm going to meet this man for lunch. You know, you and your sister are that way.
38:18
Yeah. But I get it cuz most people aren't. That's you're just But to me, it's an opportunity. I I
38:25
don't view it as a I can't wait to chew this guy out. I view it as a a chance to
38:31
go I'm going to win this guy over. Yeah. You know, or or we're going to come to mutual terms. It's just not even a
38:38
question of can I work this out. It's we will work this out.
38:43
Um and I agree with you. I think you know there's many of people that is just like
38:49
that is so uncomfortable. But I think there's an opportunity there to change
38:54
the dynamic, not just in a relationship, but hopefully just by bringing it to their attention, they don't continue to
39:01
speak negatively about not only you, but other providers because that doesn't do the profession any good.
39:07
Right. You know, patients are already suspect and and nervous and
39:14
the last thing we need is to be stepping on each other's backs. You're exactly right. And so, you know,
39:20
if nothing else, help yourself by not speaking negatively because as soon as you speak negatively about another
39:26
doctor, you know that you're in the same category. You also are a dentist and now you've
39:32
looked, oh, NFL. Sorry, we got a game. Sorry, got to go. Bye.
39:37
So, I think it's worth the confrontation. And if not, you know, a phone call, ask that person, hey, can we
39:45
meet up for coffee? Um cuz sometimes those conversations are easier to have in p in person than over the phone.
39:52
It's less likely to get heated in person, surprisingly. Yeah. And so it could be, hey, can can I meet
39:58
you up for coffee? I'd love to buy you coffee. And it doesn't have to be stop talking about it.
40:04
Can I meet you at the gun range? Yeah. I don't know what happened. The gun went
40:09
off. The gun misfired directly into their head. Well, and you you have to think and I think I play this game mentally so
40:17
I won't have to make this confrontation is that oh there's got to be something
40:23
going on. Yeah. Why? Because really there is something going on. I mean why would you badmouth
40:29
another dentist who means nothing to you, right? But then I'm taking the higher road.
40:35
Yeah. Just I'm taking the godly road. I'm turning
40:40
the other cheek. That way I don't have to confront. I'm teasing myself.
40:47
But if you don't if you don't have people, let's say you don't have Let's say you can't.
40:53
Yeah. You're the owner. You can't. You have a staff. They can't.
40:58
Yeah. You can. Yeah. And you're worth the money. Yeah. To do it really
41:04
to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you love that stuff. I love it. Send me in, coach. Yeah, it's fourth
41:12
quarter. We're behind, but I think I can save the game.
41:17
Tag me in. Because there are people that will thrive on that in a good way. Yeah.
41:22
And you know, maybe it's if if you're like, I can't approach the other practice owners, just not me.
41:28
You know, get the teams together. Yeah. say, "Hey, we'd love to have your team over for lunch or we'd love to come
41:34
and bring your team lunch and you can arrange it because you know you got your your player on the team that's like,
41:40
I'll take this challenge, you know, and so put the teams together and hopefully there's better camaraderie
41:47
after that lunch." And you know, there's various ways to solve this problem, but I
41:53
I hate to, you know, say your way is not good on this, but
41:59
but don't aware of. I'm well aware of that just cuz it can it can continue and that
42:05
negative word of mouth is powerful. It is. Yeah. You know, you put you have one patient
42:11
that's charged up now with this information from another doc and then they spread the word and then next thing
42:17
you know you got other patients of yours that are hearing this negative information and
42:23
it's just you got to put a stop to it early on is what I would say. So I agree.
42:28
Of course. I agree. Uh, okay. And then my question that I added on here, just any tips, just
42:36
general tips that you have on your mind that you would want to tell our listeners. You know, I was thinking about
42:43
you asked me that and I think one thing would be just be a constant learner.
42:49
Yeah. Of course, clinically, but then just personally
42:57
grow. Yeah. So that is reading right books and I
43:03
think you occasionally mention books to them. Read the right books. There are all kinds of podcasts out out there. Uh
43:10
you have a great podcast has a lot of great information in there and we were
43:15
talking the other day about an Arkansas. You have an Arkansas guy that listens in the town that you
43:22
grew up in which is really really neat. So cool. and some of your information
43:29
has transformed the way that he's doing dentistry. So, um, getting into some
43:35
podcast, of course, we think Bethy's is really, really great. It is. She and Dr. Koopa have a lot of great information.
43:42
So, I think the biggest thing is just be intentional uh about your education
43:49
because you can think I'm there. I've gone to dental school.
43:54
Four years of college, four years of dental school, you know, I'm I'm here.
44:00
But man, it's you're just you have the you have the basic clinical skills, but
44:07
you're going to change as a person. So, why not be intentional about the person
44:12
you want to become? Yeah, I think that's such a good point where it's not just focus on careerwise what
44:20
you need to learn but growth as a person as a person who do you want to be in you know 20 30
44:28
years and a lot of times we don't think about that cuz it's we feel secure in who we are
44:34
but um I I would just be so disappointed
44:39
if in 20 years I was who I am today. Well, yeah. You know, yeah,
44:45
it would be like you made me let yourself down, you know. It's not even you let yourself go, but it's like
44:51
to to be at the same level of knowledge, to be at the same level of personal,
44:57
you know, who I am. Yeah, I would love to be more patient, more uh inspiring,
45:03
more you know, so figuring out who you want to be, you know, 10, 20 years from now and then
45:09
figuring out, okay, what are the steps that I need to take now? Yeah. To grow that kind of person, you know,
45:15
think we think my husband and I think about this a lot with our kids. We have individual
45:20
ideals of as a human being, right? who we want
45:26
them to be once they're out of our house, the character we want them to have. And and so we're constantly
45:33
thinking about, okay, this is who we want them to be. So, how do we teach them that now so that we have a shot?
45:39
And it's a real small shot at some point, but you know, we're trying. And
45:44
so, you know, if we do that for our kids Yeah. why would we not do that for ourselves? Yeah.
45:51
Well, and we you and I had talked about in the past, you know, I'm one of those
45:56
guys that one of the reasons that I don't retire
46:01
is I don't know who I would be if I I'm not this
46:06
and I didn't intentionally end up here, but I unintentionally
46:12
I'm okay. Yeah. You know, I'm okay. All you people know I'm okay. you know, prison really helped
46:19
me and straightened me out. Um, but I wasn't I was wasn't int if I haded
46:26
to do all over again. Yeah. I would be much more intentional. So, when for all of your listeners, I would
46:34
be intentional, of course, as a dentist, be the best that you can be, which means
46:39
get the education. Yes. Get the tools, but surround yourself with a great team
46:44
because that's going to be your win. I would be intentional on uh education.
46:51
Uh I would be intentional on who I am as a husband. Yeah. Which is u you don't graduate and then
47:00
okay this is who I am. No. Intentionally grow as a husband. Intentionally grow as
47:06
a father. Yeah. Um because
47:11
without it we just kind of end up like you said 20 years down the road and hindsight's always 2020 and you don't
47:18
want that hindsight to be regret right why didn't I I was so caught up with and
47:25
this can be a problem I so caught up in being the best dentist that I can be
47:31
that I lose myself and I lose my family. I there was a I can't even remember his
47:37
name but there was an educator I used to listen to I can't remember from McKenna.
47:43
Yeah. And I can remember him saying their class his graduating class 100% divorce
47:51
rate. Wow. Is that a win? No. No. So um so you just got to be intentional
47:58
about your family and intentional about education. attention intentional about
48:04
health. Yeah. So I would just encourage her and an
48:09
intention only becomes reality with habits. Small
48:16
daily habits. So it's not I can see the person that I want to become but I only
48:21
get there with developing daily habits. Yeah. To get there. And they don't have to be
48:27
huge but they stack on top of each other. and then you get this multiplication effect.
48:33
So that's that's what I would suggest. Just be intentional about your life. Yeah, I think that's great advice and I
48:40
think it's important to think about that as a
48:45
in conjunction with it all works together, right? you know, but you can become too heavily weighted on your
48:53
career or who you are as a provider or a dentist or a dental professional that you you unintentionally forget to focus
49:01
on just who you are as an individual. So, I think that's really good advice. Awesome. Hey,
49:08
we let's go to breakfast. Let's let's go eat. I'm hungry. Love you. Love you. Thanks for joining the conversation
49:15
today. We hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not alone, but we
49:20
also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your practice.
49:26
We value your feedback, so please take a few moments to rate and review the
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let us know what topics you want us to cover. As always, please know that we are
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rooting for you today as you manage your dental drama.