Feedback Free Society

Have you noticed the fragility of the human psyche? One harsh word can crumble someone’s confidence or inflame it. In the workplace, corrective feedback has become incredibly challenging. Leaders must delicately balance corrective conversations and often find themselves avoiding them all together. Dr. Kuba and Bethany tackle this topic in today’s episode. 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Why Feedback Feels Impossible
• 6:25 When Feedback Goes Sideways
• 13:00 Growth Requires Discomfort
• 18:21 Pay Expectations vs Reality
• 29:42 Feedback or Manipulation?
• 37:15 Avoiding Conflict Creates More Drama
• 44:42 February 2026 Digest Resources

Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then
0:09
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba
0:14
as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made
0:19
while managing dental drama. Let's get started. Hey, hey,
0:24
hey. So, we're back, both of us. Two episodes in a row. What what kind of trend is
0:31
this? Are we setting? We We've got to We got to temper it because our listeners are going to expect us every week
0:37
together. Yes. I'm happy to We need to make it happen. Like we we're usually good about it.
0:43
It's just life circumstances. Life happened. Yeah. But two in a row. Yes. Somebody decided to go breed goats and
0:50
whatever. I I don't I don't know. I I can't control people's choices in life. Like, sorry y'all. There's only so much
0:56
I can do. Bethany just tanking the trend here.
1:02
Doing whatever the heck she wants to do. Goats today, chickens tomorrow. What is it next? Uh, some lambs, some pigs.
1:09
Alpacas are on my list. Alpacas? Are you kidding? No, I'm not kidding. Actually, I really I would love a couple alpaca, but that's
1:17
not going to happen for a while. So, have you seen them? They're so freaking
1:23
cute. They're adorable. Anyway, but it's not happening. Let me help her. What
1:28
What are we doing? I I don't know. I thought you were going to do some fruit trees. Can we stick to trees?
1:33
Fruit trees. Fruit trees. Fruit trees are going to beat alpacas without a doubt. Okay. Yeah, fruit trees are next. Garden next.
1:41
Okay, I can do something with that. First of all, those aren't scary. Second of all, I can eat. So, I'm fine with
1:47
those. I don't know what to do with your goats and your alpaca. Good grief. Pull it together, lady.
1:54
What is happening? Do you know we have a podcast? I mean, come on. I I
2:00
Okay. Well, today's topic then, let's dive into.
2:06
It's actually quite fitting, isn't it? It's quite fitting. Um, a feedbackfree society is what we
2:14
want to talk about today. And the challenge of giving feedback, receiving feedback. Uh so I don't I you're going
2:22
to give us some examples of things you deal with and some tips of but the point is it's becoming
2:29
it's very difficult. I don't think it's a new thing at all. No but it is just like you know we keep
2:34
talking about culture culture culture and if you are not able to give feedback
2:39
that is going to be received the way you intended it to and then you go back and say well is it you were you giving
2:45
feedback inappropriately? Are you capable of receiving feedback
2:50
and doing something with that feedback? Um, anyway, I think this is obviously not just in dental. I think this is in
2:57
society altogether. Yeah. But if if we can't give and receive feedback, then how do we improve
3:03
ourselves or improve our culture or improve anything really? Exactly. If we're always right.
3:10
Yeah. And I'm never the problem, it's you. Yeah. Then how do we have traction forward as
3:17
a society? I guess is the question. Agree completely. And I think this is
3:23
historically feedback is always hard. I think feedback now is borderline
3:29
impossible. Like it's I know it's not impossible. I my the whole reason we're having this episode is to be like come
3:35
on people like wake up. We need feedback. Feedback. But I think the waters are so murky for it and there's
3:41
such fear around it now. And I think this kind of ties back to my episode with my husband where he said the same
3:49
thing like you just it's so tumultuous like you just
3:55
I don't know. And I I see it really impacting teams in a way where it's like we're
4:02
willing to just put up with a lot of crappy situations cuz we're so scared of
4:08
having to deliver feedback or say something that might hurt somebody's feelings. And so therefore, we just kind
4:14
of like trudge along in So do you think that starts with the owner? Like if the owner has this
4:21
environment of I guess I'm just reading a book right now that I'm loving and and he says in it about like why do we think
4:28
we're supposed to always spread positivity. Yeah. And that that saying to my soul because
4:34
I was like crusty. He's telling me it's okay to be crusty. And his example in
4:39
the book was um he was talking to somebody and that he was like, "Oh, do you know this person?" And it was this
4:45
guy's supervisor and he's like, "Yeah, every couple months he'll come and like blow smoke up my ass and like, you know,
4:52
try to rain sunshine and rainbows and and it was like, is it this fake positivity?" Because that's what we're
4:58
supposed to do is like be kind, be positive, we're in this together, like that whole thing. And it's like shut the
5:04
hell up. like, yeah, there's a time and place for that, but sometimes we've got to deal with the pile of duty that's
5:11
over here that's not pleasant or kind or positive. Like, we've got to trudge through this. And so, um, anyway, so, so
5:17
that was to me, it made me go, yeah, as owners, are we either A, are we sending a false narrative of
5:24
positivity when we really have stuff we need to tackle? B, are we scared of
5:30
confrontations? And so now the team is going, well, doctor won't even address this with so and so. So, I don't have
5:36
the leg to stand on because now I'm going to be seen as the mean person or the squeaky wheel. So, I better just
5:43
shut up and deal with it because nobody else in this building is dealing with it. Like, are we part of the problem with that?
5:49
I Yes and no. I mean, I can see situations where the practice owner is
5:55
himself or herself so uncomfortable with feedback that now the whole team is like, "Yeah, yeah, we don't we don't do
6:01
conflict in this office." Like, that's it's not okay. But I would say that's probably the the exception and not the
6:07
rule. I would say at least a couple of the situations that I'm thinking about today, like the
6:15
practice owner isn't afraid of feedback and and they give feedback and yet the
6:22
reaction to it is still wrong. And I would say even if the practice
6:28
owner or practice manager leader is good at giving feedback that there can still be these weird like, "Oh, I don't want
6:34
to say that cuz I don't want to hurt that person's feelings amongst team members."
6:40
Give us examples. Give us examples. Yeah, I I'll give you one that I'm thinking about that went poorly. Um, we
6:47
So, I was working with a client of mine who's a high feedback giver. um very
6:53
direct and has no problem giving feedback. Um and and
7:00
maybe more critical feedback than positive feedback. Like she's not the raw sis boom ba person. She's like
7:05
something needs to be said. Let's say it and let's move on, you know. Um and so in this environment, I was there. We
7:12
were doing a team meeting. We were doing a training on pass offs because the
7:18
times that I had been there pulling some reports or working on some things, I was like, "Oh man, that was a crappy pass
7:24
off." Like, we did not tee up the patient. Well, the clinical team member kind of tossed the very basic
7:32
information or no information to the business team member and now there was a little bit of like uncertainty with the
7:38
ending of this appointment. So, I had it on my radar for our next team meeting. I want to make sure that we focus on pass
7:44
offs. And so, um, I had us roleplay the
7:51
pass offs. I was like, "Hey, before we talk about what a good pass off is, I want to see in this team environment
7:57
what you guys think is a good pass off. I want you to demonstrate it for me." And so, one of the RDAs on the team
8:04
volunteered. She was like, "I'll go first." I'm like, "Thank you for doing that. I know role play is uncomfortable, but I appreciate you doing that."
8:10
Um, so she roleplayed her pass off and there was a lot of things that needed to change in the pass off. And so my client
8:18
was like it kind of looked at me and was like, "Hey, do you want to start with, you know, feedback on that?" And I was
8:24
like, "No, let's let's open it up and let's see what comes of it." And so my
8:30
client jumped in. She was like, "Well, I So sorry, real quick. Did did the RDA who volunteer, did she think she did a
8:35
good job?" Yes. Okay. So now when you guys are like, "Uh, there's a lot of things wrong." Was
8:41
she like, "What are you talking about? Were you watching?" Because she thinks she did everything right. She thinks she did everything right in
8:46
this roleplay scenario. And also I teed it up because I know how uncomfortable
8:51
feedback is for people that I teed it up and I said, "Hey, we're going to jump into some roleplay. You're going to
8:57
demonstrate. We're all going to evaluate together what went right about the pass off and what could be improved about the
9:03
pass off." So you're going to hear some critique in this. This is a session for critique. So get yourselves I even said
9:10
get your your skin thicken it up real quickly because we're going to hear feedback um that you need to hear. I
9:17
said that to the whole team because I wanted there to be a clear expectation that you're going to hear hear stuff.
9:23
And so my client kind of jumped in after she demonstrated her pass off and she was like well I've got several things
9:29
that I would mention as things that need to be changed. It's so again, my client
9:36
being herself is not like, I'm not gonna fluff this up. There's no reason to fluff this up. I'm gonna go straight to
9:41
We're trying to improve for our patient experience and we all benefit from that
9:46
because if we have a better patient experience, patient comes back and you guys get a paycheck. Exactly. So, we're always trying to improve just
9:52
like LeBron James is always trying to improve his game and this is what we do. We have to work on
9:58
our skills. Yes. And so she went, my client went straight into the critique like, "Hey,
10:04
there weren't a lot of words said in this pass off specifically this, this, this, and and was giving, she's worked
10:11
with me for a long time. She knows what I'm about to say, but she was happy enough to say it." And so I could see
10:17
the demeanor change for this RDA. you know, kind of a a happy, bouncy
10:24
little, you know, young lady. And now just kind of this shutdown like now I'm
10:31
wearing a blank face. Now I'm not reacting. So defensive. Now I'm crossing my arms. I'm like, ah,
10:37
here we go. And so I was like, I just need to make sure that the rest of the team is
10:42
hearing the feedback cuz she clearly isn't. And then we're going to move on to somebody else doing a role play so
10:47
that she can see we're going to do this for everybody. This is not just you. we're going to give feedback to
10:52
everybody. And sure enough, multiple other team members went. They all had
10:57
critiques that they all received critiques. And as the role plays went, they got
11:03
better because everybody's listening to the critiques and they're making pivots in their performance, which is what we
11:09
want. That's how we train. And um so anyway, I checked in with my client um
11:16
later that week and was like, "Hey, how's everything going?" Just like a quick text message. Um, and she was
11:21
like, "Wow, RDA, the first one that volunteered to go moody as heck the rest
11:30
of the week." And she said so much so that I ended up pulling her aside and being like, "Girl, what's up? Because
11:36
this is not okay. The way that you're acting is not okay." And in that meeting
11:42
with uh my client, the RDA said, "I just feel like that was an attack."
11:48
Um, I felt like that whole role play was for me.
11:55
Oh my god, drama queen. That y'all get over yourself. Y'all put that all together for me. So,
12:03
my client who I love her and she was like, just think about that for a
12:08
minute. How could we have manipulated the situation for you to volunteer to go
12:14
first? Do how could we have predicted that? Bethany didn't even ask for volunteers.
12:21
She was about to go through the scenario and assign people. You volunteered. We
12:26
didn't see that coming from a mile away. And now you think that the whole thing was put together for you. Girl, check
12:32
yourself. Like that doesn't even logically make sense. And so she had a
12:37
good, you know, clarifying conversation with her that, you know, the girl stated that she felt better felt better
12:45
about things after talking to my client about it. By the way,
12:50
not to give away the ending, she ended up quitting. Okay. Wow.
12:56
Yeah. She ended up quitting. That immature. Yeah. Yeah. But it was a reminder for
13:03
me, which I'm hit with it all the time. But I was like, we live in a
13:08
feedbackfree society. We can't take it cuz she got a trophy all the time. She
13:14
was always patted on the back. You're God's gift to the planet and you're perfect and there's no reason you
13:21
need to change. Just keep being you. Is what we all want to hear and what we
13:27
believe we're owed. We we don't believe that we're deserving of that critique.
13:35
And let me tell you, this was critique that everybody received in that
13:40
training. Everybody had something that they could improve upon. But her
13:45
perception walking away from that was this is all about me and they're being unfair. They're being unfair. Even though
13:51
everybody received critique. And so I think for me this is a real challenging
13:58
moment for our listeners because we have a lot of team members that listen to this show. And way to go. Can we just
14:04
like say a quick kudos to I love that we have dental professionals out there that
14:09
aren't the dentist, aren't the manager, and they're listening to this podcast cuz to me it shows that you want better.
14:17
You want better for yourself. You want better for your team. So, I I just want to give like a shout out to our team
14:23
members that listen and say thank you for being like creme de la creme top at the top for listening. Um, but I also
14:30
want to caution our listeners, all listeners, doctors, managers, team
14:35
members. We can't be this type of person that can't receive a critique because
14:42
then we become a person that has such a low ceiling because we need critique. We
14:48
need people challenging us to say, "Hey, you probably could have done that better." And we receive that and go,
14:56
"Let me think about that and chew on it." And we may end up disagreeing and going, you know, I I don't think I could have done it better. But there should be
15:03
plenty of times where we go, there's something for me to learn in this. and which I think I've seen it even you know
15:09
when you're describing this person I'm thinking of a young you know but I I've
15:15
had a colleague a male older colleague and his response always is well that's
15:21
just not me that's just not me I'm going to stay true to who I am and I'm like
15:27
okay I can kind of see that to a degree like yeah we should all be ourselves we shouldn't all just like be cookie cutter
15:32
and whatever we all have different feelings different backgrounds different goals, different whatever. But at the end of the day, if we're still trying to
15:39
go, how can we improve? And your reply to that is, well, that's just not who I
15:44
am, so I'm not going to do it that way. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
15:49
Well, then that basically is that's your excuse for not wanting to challenge yourself to be better.
15:56
Yeah. Agreed. And to me, we can all be better. We can
16:02
all be better. even my dad's the perfect example of this at
16:07
70 whatever years old he is and he's still looking for ways to improve and I see him trying to cons consistently be
16:15
better and so if he at 74 or five I can't remember how old he is if he's still pushing to be better than
16:22
certainly myself at 45 and RDA on this
16:27
team who with however old she is let's go with 20some she can certainly improve
16:32
And so it doesn't matter what stage of life we're at, what position in the practice we're at. Just because your
16:38
doctor doesn't mean that you've arrived. Just because you're manager doesn't mean that you've arrived and you're the be
16:45
all end all. Like we all have room for impro improvement. Well, and that that's like even the last episode we did on insurance. Like those
16:51
are things that I don't know. Like you would think I've been running a practice for 15 years now, over 15 years, and
16:56
that I would have these answers. And I don't. And I'm constantly going, "Okay,
17:02
well, like I I sent you 10 screenshots of all the back and forth between me and
17:07
my manager, and I'm like, Bethany, this is what I said, but I I need another set of eyeballs on this. What am I missing?"
17:12
Yeah. Because I want to be better, and I want to learn and tweak. And so, to me, that
17:18
mindset has always been like, who do you think you are? Like, what? Again, you think LeBron James or whoever, you know,
17:26
whatever greats there are. Michael Phelps never had a coach because he just he got his medal that I'm just not going to improve because I don't need to.
17:32
That's not me. I'm not gonna I'm just like that's weird. It's It's odd. Like I don't want
17:38
to be around people like that because to me I'm like then you're stagnant and I don't want to be around someone
17:43
stagnant. Like no. Right. Um so anyway, that that's just mindboggling
17:49
to me. So good. She quit. Move along, honey. I I agree. You you clearly aren't in
17:54
this to improve efficiencies and things like that. Like we all need to improve by by the sheer not not that we're wrong
18:00
or bad people, but by the sheer changes in society. Now there's this technology available. Now there's this software
18:06
available. Now there's this that available. Like so that's going to mean re-evaluating ourselves and our systems.
18:13
Reval, reval, reeval. If you're not capable of reevaluating, good. I'm glad you got out of the way because you're slowing the rest of us down.
18:19
Absolutely. Absolutely. I want to give another example and then maybe if we have time one more. So this happened
18:26
this week. And so uh there's a team member um that
18:32
was I'm going to have to give background to make this make sense. So so bear with me
18:38
with a few background details. So this team member started with my client. Um she was a brand new RDA. Um had not even
18:46
gone through the program but wanted to be an RDA. And so she was doing on the job training with my client, which
18:54
again, kudos to all practices that do that. That's definitely a heavy load to to get somebody trained up. Um, but she
19:01
was willing to do that with this young lady. Um, and so I can't even remember where she had
19:07
worked before. It was something retail or something like that. So, she brought this lady in and started the long haul
19:13
of getting this person trained and started her at a what you would make at
19:18
a fast food place, you know, like started her at that wage because of the amount of time and effort that she was
19:24
going to have to put into training. Um, we had communicated to this young lady like, "Hey, we'll go through this
19:31
training program, you know, and there's going to reach a point where you have to
19:36
be licensed to continue learning to be an RDA." Um, so we'd encourage you to
19:42
get on that sooner rather than later. Once you get that license, then there will we'll give you a pay bump that's
19:48
commiserate with that. So this young lady kind of usurped that
19:53
and was at 6, seven months in, had not gotten her license yet, but was like,
20:00
"Hey, my life circumstances have changed and I have got to be able to earn more
20:05
income." Well, my client and I have a very predictable pattern of how we give RDA's increases in her office. Every
20:11
office is different, but we have a very predictable pattern. It's licenses number one. Once you're licensed, then
20:19
your next um increase is most likely going to be due to um learning both OP
20:25
and hygiene. So once you've learned licensed, that's a pay increase. Once
20:31
you've got both OP and hygiene assisting down, then there's a pay increase. Then
20:36
the next one is usually about the time that you can get corona polishing. And then there's normally a pay increase for
20:41
corona polishing use certification and use. And then sealants is the next one
20:47
and then O credentiing which can be at any point during that. So there's all these like next level things that you
20:54
get a pay increase for. Well, this we felt like this lady had potential. We
21:00
don't normally break the mold to do pay increases, but we were like, ah, we're in this situation. Let's figure
21:07
something out. We've already invested so much in this. We've already invested seven I think it was seven months at this point in this
21:13
young lady. like let's see what we can do. And she had a very particular pay
21:20
increase that she needed to be able to do these life changes that she needed to to deal with.
21:27
So, we're in a rock and a hard place cuz we're like, first of all, that pay increase was $6
21:34
more per hour than she was currently making. So my client and I came up with
21:42
something that was basically like, okay, it'll make sense if we don't have to hire this marketing company to do all
21:48
the social media, to do the marketing deliveries, do all of that. That's about X dollars amount of per month that we'd
21:55
have to spend with the marketing company. What we could do is just put it to her instead. And that mathematically
22:01
would get her to that dollar amount that she needed. So we had that. So she's having to pick up more skill
22:07
sets. Basically, she's having to do not just her type stuff. She's picking up. Okay.
22:12
Absolutely. And so, we had that conversation like, "Hey, if you're willing to do these marketing tasks, we
22:18
can get you to that payout uh dollar amount." And so, she agreed to that. Um,
22:24
and we reiterated, hey, next pay increase is going to be um at this point
22:29
she in the middle of all this, she had also gotten her license. So, we're like, okay, that also would have okay, this is
22:34
all working together mathematically where we can give you the pay increase for your RDA license and then also
22:40
marketing being added to that and it'll jump you to this particular amount. We're good with that.
22:47
Let me make it clear, this was back when this conversation happened. Let me make it clear that your next pay increase is
22:54
going to come from either O certification or chronal polishing,
23:00
whichever of those comes first. We clear on that? Yeah, we're clear on that. Well, fast forward to this week
23:08
and well, let me go back just a few months. She had a performance increase, I mean a performance review recently
23:14
where she asked about a pay increase. At that time, we reiterated to her,
23:20
remember, you're really close now to where you can get your coronal polishing certification. She's unwilling to go to
23:26
the O. Um, so that can't be a part of the uh pay increase. So, your next opportunity is coming in a few months,
23:32
which will be chronopos. See, that to me is a red flag right there, too. Yeah. That you're refusing to go to the O. I don't like it.
23:38
Yeah. So, basically, we were like, "Okay, so don't forget that's coming up. Once you get that and can show that
23:43
you're using the skills, there will be a pay increase." And she was like, "So, I can't get anything before then?" No, you can't get anything before then. So, that
23:49
conversation happened. Well, there's We kicked off the new year. Great. We're like, "Raw, Ross, sis boom ba. This is
23:55
what we want to get done from a marketing standpoint. Hey, RDA, you're
24:00
you're kicking this off, right?" Well, she'd started to have a change of heart and was uncomfortable with some of the
24:06
marketing. Um, didn't want to do certain aspects of the marketing that just made her
24:11
uncomfortable. now. Um, so she's kind of telling my client like,
24:18
"Hey, yeah, remember I don't want to do that part of the marketing." And my client's like, "But that's your role.
24:25
Like you that's what you that's what you do in on the practice in the team."
24:31
Yeah, but you know, I I kind of don't want to do that part anymore. So the the
24:36
assistant was kind of communicating kind of clearly like, "Hey, I don't want to do
24:41
this part." And so my client was like, "Okay, well, we'll talk about that later, but you got to at least get these
24:47
things scheduled. You've got to get these marketing things scheduled, and we'll figure out your role in that later."
24:52
Well, it the uh assistant escalated and got very upset that my client wasn't
25:00
listening to her and her preferences and and she felt like it was unfair that she can't back away from things that have
25:06
been her role. Can you imagine? Yeah, I can't imagine cuz I sat in this freaking situation.
25:12
And so my cl Thankfully I was there this week. My client's like, "Girl,
25:18
this is your problem. You you deal with this." I'm like, "Please let me deal with it. I would love to handle this on your behalf. And so I had a conversation
25:26
with the assistant and I was like, "Hey, tell me what's going on. Fill me in. There sounds like there's been some
25:32
drama recently and I want to know from your perspective what's going on." And she said just as much like, "Hey,
25:37
there's certain aspects of marketing that I don't want to do anymore and I just don't understand why it's not possible for me to back away from these
25:44
marketing things." So I was like, "Thank you for for clarifying that.
25:50
let me clarify some things for you because I said I think it needs it requires for me to back up and paint a
25:55
picture for you to make sure that we're both on the same page. So I reminded her of all these steps that were taken to
26:02
get her to a certain pay blah blah blah. And so I was like when you hear Dr. So and so say
26:09
this is your role. She's saying this is your role because that role is directly associated with
26:15
the pay that you're currently making. Do you remember when we made those accommodations? Yes, I do remember that
26:20
that those pay accommodations were made because of the marketing role. We could justify it because of the marketing
26:26
role. But now you're backing away and saying I don't want to do that. And so for me, I said I'll just be honest from
26:32
a consultant standpoint. I'm going well then that needs to come with a pay adjustment because that pay was directly
26:38
associated to your marketing role. And so I'm like the cho I'm going to leave the ball in your court.
26:45
If there are changes that you want to make to your marketing role, which by the way will come with pay adjustments,
26:51
then you need to schedule a time with Dr. Soandso. So, it can't be this last
26:56
minute end of day, hey doc, I need to talk to you about something. That's not okay. That's not fair. You need to
27:02
schedule a time with her to say, hey, can we talk about my role? And then it will be discussed in a way that's very thorough and complete. Are we good with
27:09
that? Yes, that makes a lot of sense and it sounds like I have a lot to think about. Yes, it does. get back with me.
27:17
That get back with me was a resignation. Good. That's what needed to happen
27:22
though. She wanted She's thinking she's a Burger King and she's going to get it her way and this is what I want to do for my job. Like who are you? Get out of
27:31
here. Go scram. Because to me like that you knew what you were doing and you knew and like I guess for for me looking
27:38
at it from here going y'all had a very logical mathematical reason and way you
27:44
made it work and she's all feelings. I don't want to. Well, that's what you
27:50
committed to and you guys had a very mathematical going. It's going to cost us this to go outside and get marketing.
27:57
So if we could keep it inhouse, I'll let you give a whirl at it. which even that alone is so generous because you're not
28:04
a marketing person, right? If you were to go spend it with a marketing company, they're accountability. There's they have
28:11
systems. They've got that's what they do. That's their area of expertise. And you were willing to say, "Okay, fine.
28:18
We'll save that and we'll let you who knows nothing about marketing that we're going to have to walk you through all of
28:23
this and work with you, but you know what? We're willing to do that to try to meet you halfway." And you took all of
28:30
that and you have completely flipped it. Like you are ungrateful. You are
28:36
clueless. And again, you are used to getting things your way. I I
28:43
Good. I'm so glad she's gone. Good grief. Yep. But again, it is we we sit down.
28:51
First of all, she was already struggling with the push back from my client saying, "But this is your role." Like,
28:57
right? So that but to no awareness of that. Right. Right.
29:02
It's again a very take take take take take society. It makes me go back and think about I think like a year or so
29:07
ago we did an episode on um my friend who her she she was doing a
29:15
favor to another friend and allowed this other friend's whoever to come in and I don't remember the relationship but she
29:21
allowed her to come in and learn how to be an RDA on her watch. And then this
29:26
said RDA is like, well, I want a raise. And it's like, what are you talking about? You're not even worth what you
29:32
we're paying you right now. And everything you've learned, you've learned on the job. But it was like, well, but you know, you
29:39
couldn't see these patients with this efficiency without me. I'm like, what? Where are we? Like, you just want to
29:44
take take take. And that's the society we're in. That's what this girl sounds like. Like, y'all made all of these
29:49
accommodations to try to keep her in the field that she said she wanted to be in.
29:55
and it's all on the dock to make all these accommodations and this per like anyway that that's absolutely bye
30:02
Felicia get out of here. agree and I agree with you 100% that's what needed
30:08
to happen quite obviously but the inability for that person to not only
30:14
take the feedback from her boss it's like but this is your role like hey but
30:20
this is what you agreed to you know she couldn't take that that made her very upset very emotional that was the kind
30:25
of the drama of this week but then even for me to come back around give very
30:31
logical but plain explanation feedback and then to give her the feedback to
30:37
say, "Hey, if you want to continue this conversation, schedule time." Dah d and you know what? I quit. I'm done. We that
30:46
can't hap. We can't be people like that that can't receive any kind of push or
30:52
any kind of pressure and then we just buckle under it and walk away. Well, and but to me, I don't know that
30:58
that was necessarily a feedback thing. She was trying to manipulate her way into what she wanted. Yeah.
31:04
her saying, "I've got a lot to think about." Because now she's realizing she's like the the patient I talked about before in
31:11
a previous episode about like, "I I want my way. Yes, I took my kids somewhere
31:16
else. I didn't tell you, but now I want my way because I should just get my way." And even
31:23
though it would be easier for me to just write that money off and be like, "Okay, let's all just move on. That would be the easiest." I can't do that because
31:30
then I'm rewarding you and telling you it is okay for you to go do whatever the hell you want and you still get your
31:36
way. And that's what this lady wanted. Even when she's asking you for that $6 increase, I would have said, "I'm sorry,
31:42
that's not part of this." Like, y'all were very generous. Yeah. I guess me having done this as long as I
31:47
have, I'm just like, "Yeah, that's never going to work." Like, I'm never going to be happy with She's clearly trying to
31:54
jump ahead and you've made those lifestyle changes. That's not my problem,
31:59
right? So, yeah, like you you've made those changes, so maybe part of your change is you need to find a different job.
32:04
Yeah. And that's what I would have said at that point would have been like, "Nope, sorry. Not going to happen. When are you
32:10
quitting? When's your last day?" So, I can start looking. And then she could have been like, "Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa." Or she could have been like, "Yeah,
32:16
you're right. I I'm not. This dental thing isn't really my passion, and I'm moving on." But we put a band-aid on it
32:22
and we dragged along for this long. But that's basically what she was doing. To me, it's not that she couldn't take
32:27
feedback. It's she wasn't getting her way. She wanted to do these particular items
32:32
and this is what I want to get paid for that. And that's what that goes back to that I know my worth. Okay. Well, go
32:38
worth yourself somewhere else cuz that's not what's going to work here. Yeah. Yeah. And again, to me,
32:46
there's a certain caliber of team member that I feel like is worthy of working in
32:54
the dental field. I I and I say this all the time. I get on my soap box, but we
32:59
as me we're in the medical arena. So medical providers, nurses, hygienists,
33:07
assistants, receptionists at dental offices, we have a we should hold
33:14
ourselves to a different level of professionalism, of
33:20
pursuit of excellence because we don't work at Starbucks. Heck, we don't work at Chick-fil-A, which I feel like
33:26
somehow they turn out the best dang employees ever. And it's fast freaking food. Like, we have got to hold
33:33
ourselves to a higher standard in individually
33:38
because the field demands it. Our patients deserve people who come to work
33:44
with a level of professionalism. Professionals that can take feedback. professionals that not only can take it,
33:50
seek it out to go, how could I be better in this situation? How could I have
33:55
communicated differently to that mom? You looking at a text message exchange
34:01
regarding that mom that we talked about last week that was demanding, you know,
34:07
to for you to write off something and you pausing to going, no, let me just not brush this aside. Let me actually
34:14
think about this thoroughly and make sure that I've fully digested this situation. so that I can then make
34:20
improvements in my patient experience or make improvements with my team or become
34:25
more resolute in my position. Every situation
34:30
demands that of us and we should be willing to put that forward and to receive whatever feedback we need to be
34:38
able to then grow as professionals. And that to me is the key message in this
34:43
episode is yes, the rest of the world can live as a feedback feedback-free society, but as dental professionals,
34:50
no. Unacceptable in my opinion. Which I think at least I I guess I won't
34:55
say I I think it can be generalized, but I'm just going to talk about my team alone. Do they drive me crazy a lot of
35:00
the times? Absolutely. Do I value everything? like they have from front to
35:07
back have such a tough it's a tough job y'all for any team members listening
35:13
y'all have I think one of the toughest jobs there is because you have to be
35:19
you're you're in hospitality you have to be people forward um even if you're the AR person in the back that
35:25
you're hiding from people you still have to be people forward because you you've got to make these calls and you you're you're dealing with some of the worst
35:32
like the the toughest person. Um, you've got to perform. You've got to physically
35:38
look well, be well. You've got to be able to communicate well. Yeah. You've got to be able to document well.
35:43
You've got to be able to have good hand skills. You've got to be quick. You've got to be able to read the room. You've got to be So, y'all have some of the
35:50
toughest jobs that there is. And I think most people in a dental office
35:55
um do well with feedback. You have to you you're not going to make it in the field if you don't. But I'm gonna
36:02
encourage you to keep pushing because there are always improvements to be made. And you know, again, maybe you and
36:07
Sally got along great and then Sally retired or Sally moved to Idaho and now there's a new RDA. Now you're having to
36:12
start over and build that relationship all over again. Um and and you've got to work well with
36:18
this person. You guys have got to be able to uh you know, if if Sally took the last
36:24
of the retraction cord and didn't replenish it, now that's going to fall on you. And
36:29
you know there there all these things that we can it's a tough job. Yeah. And you didn't have a say in who got
36:36
hired or not. Yeah. You're you're stuck with the person that the boss brought in. So I mean make no mistake y'all have a
36:44
tough job and most of y'all do it exceedingly well. um where I would say the majority of
36:50
people in other jobs be it engineers or be it whoever teachers and whoever y'all
36:57
y'all a lot of people could not do what y'all do. Um so hats off to you for that. But the in order to continue to be
37:06
successful in your role and impact the people, my guess is you are in this office to make a positive impact on
37:11
somebody. And to be able to do that, you've got to be able to take feedback. Yeah. And you can't shy away from it. Because
37:16
the other example you had was uh I think two RDAs that weren't getting along, but
37:21
then neither one wants to say something to the other one for fear of either hurting feelings or creating drama, which is very much appreciated. That
37:28
that sentiment is appreciated, but on the other hand, I think you said it to
37:34
me a while back was like, okay, but if you're trying to avoid drama, is there already not drama because you're not
37:40
confronting the problem? Exactly. So, do you want to give an example of that? You said you have third example.
37:46
My third example where is it this is not just feedback from
37:51
manager or practice owner to team member. We also avoid it just personto
37:57
person. And I see that a lot of times where even if it's a a client of mine that's a
38:03
high feedback giver. You know that there's still these underlying
38:09
issues where team member to team member we're not going to say a critical word because you know that's my friend. I
38:15
don't want anything to be awkward there. I'm like, but you're putting up with
38:20
something that is inefficient, ineffective, you know, it could be better, and you're unwilling to say
38:26
that. And therefore, then there's these these riffs that can start to develop just
38:32
team member to team member. And so I think it even that we may have a high
38:37
feedback giver boss and there's still a resistance towards feed feedback
38:42
personto person because I'm unwilling to have those conversations. I thought you That's interesting. You're saying that like oh this person's my
38:48
friend I don't want to cuz I thought you were going to be like I can't stand that person but I got to work with them. So I'm not I don't know how to approach you
38:54
cuz I just can't stand you. No, it's it's more the I mean, it happens there as well, but
39:00
surprisingly, if the I can't stand you, we're actually more
39:05
communicating feedback. It's usually negatively. Why'd you do it that way?
39:12
You did it that way again. So, there's actually some content that will exist in those situations usually. Um, but no,
39:20
the hardest is when it's like my buddy that I'm I really like this person, so I
39:25
don't want to say anything that might then cause them not to like me. So, what is your suggestion then? How do we get around that?
39:31
We've just got to do it. There's got to be somebody bold enough to say something
39:36
and to to change the dynamic of that relationship slightly for the better.
39:42
It's so interesting. We were, you know, teenage teenage drama. There's always
39:48
drama, right? And we were sitting down coaching my daughter through something recently and um
39:55
we have dealt with this inability to communicate with our friends for all the
40:03
way back to teenage years. I sit there and I listen to her processing through how she needs to navigate something and
40:08
I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this sounds so familiar to things that I hear like in a
40:15
professional environment where, oh well, I don't I don't want to say that cuz that may cause this person to be upset
40:22
or I don't want to change what I'm doing because that may tip my friend off that
40:28
I'm unhappy with a situation." And it's like verbatim what I hear in the dental
40:33
office. And to me, so my challenge to my daughter has been just say it. Just say
40:41
it. Be careful with your words. Be strategic. Think through how you're going to say it, but you need to be
40:47
clear and you need to set some boundaries and you need to say some things. And my husband, who's much more
40:53
of a feeler, people pleaser, like life at the party, is like, "Oh, but could
40:58
she avoid saying it? Like, couldn't she just do this instead and then it'll all
41:03
be okay? And I'm like, no. Get behind me, Satan. Do not speak that way. Like, that's so stupid. That's the problem.
41:09
You're the problem. You That is what people do. They avoid and can I just like maybe do this and they'll kind of
41:16
pick up on the hint. No, we have got to be confident enough in our relationship
41:22
with that person. We've got to be confident enough in oursel to be able to communicate well. We've got to be
41:27
confident enough in that person to know that they're a big enough person to be able to hear that hear that to be able
41:33
to boldly engage in these conversations. I think it's a a problem in dental
41:38
offices. It's a problem in our society that we just either avoid or we we drop
41:44
subtle hints in hopes that they're going to pick up on it and then when they don't pick up on it, we get pissy about
41:50
that. I'm like, what is wrong with us? Be bold to start engaging in those
41:56
conversations. If you're worried about it upsetting your friendship, have a clarifying conversation. Say, "Hey, sometimes
42:02
there's times where we're working together that I need to be able to communicate maybe some changes that I would like to see. What's the best way
42:08
for me to have those conversations with you? How how can I do it in a way that doesn't upset you? The last thing I want
42:15
to do is upset you, but also I know there's some things that we could do to improve.
42:20
How can I make it comfortable for you to say things to me? what what can I do to help that along? Like just have these
42:26
clarifying conversations and redefine what our communication needs to look
42:31
like? And to me, it boils down to just that. So, can I challenge you with um can you
42:39
put together like a playbook tip for the digest that would because to me I'm
42:44
sitting there going if anybody's listening to this um whether it's the doctor or the front desk or whoever and
42:49
you're like uh yeah, you know what? there is somebody I need to have this conversation with. But then what just
42:55
like today on a Monday, hey, by the way, can we go to lunch so I can like how how do you initiate? What might be some
43:01
things you could y say and how to say it? Um I think for me
43:08
what what I because I don't like conflict. So either I'm one of those who like your husband, I'm just going to
43:14
change this so I don't have to deal with it. But inadvertently it comes back to bite me in the butt in some form or fashion. So I think me what I'm hoping
43:22
for a lot of times too is going you know that I am in your corner. Yeah. And I'm not trying to break you down. So
43:29
I'm trying to say this and I don't know how else to say it. So I hope you don't take offense but this is what I'm seeing
43:36
and this is what I wish would be different. But it does require me to think through. Yes.
43:43
Have an example ready. have if I'm going to be wishy-washy and talking all over the place, then we're
43:49
not going to get anywhere. And then that person may be like, "What are you talking about?" Yeah. And you know, but if I've got some
43:55
examples, then it's like, "Okay, that's a concrete and like what did you have?" Even
44:01
yesterday, my front desk person came to the new associate and was like, "Hey, um, you know, this is taking this much
44:08
longer." And I said, "But do you have anything for him? like what do me and the other guy do? If we don't have that
44:15
problem, then what do we do that you could help this guy? She's like, well, I don't know. I hadn't thought about that yet. I'm like, okay, but this poor
44:21
associate now is on the line for going, I'm creating a problem, but I don't even know what I'm creating and how do we
44:27
change it. So, it's like it would have been better if she would have kind of thought through and said, hey, this is how Kuba does it, and that's why we
44:33
don't fall into this. This is how so and so does it. We don't fall into that. So, there's two different ways you could do it.
44:39
Um, that's a perfect example. So, as you're approaching that, but could you create something for us that it's like
44:45
if if somebody there's listening going, "Yes, I do have this problem. I don't know how to bring it up that
44:51
you could kind of give them some tips on how to follow." I will have lots of resources in our
44:57
February digest for that. Awesome. Yeah. Because I think that's actually even as you were talking it formalized
45:04
the theme a little bit for me. February. Love your team. Love your team. Love your team. Okay.
45:10
Love your team. Love your teammates. Loved love. Love your boss. Love your owner. I mean, I'm so excited.
45:18
This is perfect. Yes. So, I will and bosses, you guys let your team know
45:23
how much you love them. Yes. Just love, love everywhere. I'm excited
45:29
about that. So, yes, I will have very specific how-tos and um even resources
45:35
for hey, watch this video, listen to this uh to get yourself prepared for a
45:40
conversation that you might need to be having, whether that's boss to employee, employee to employee, employee to boss.
45:47
Um I think it will be universally applicable. Okay. So, now you have inspired me and I
45:53
don't know what it's going to be yet, but there's too much love. Sometimes that just sounds like it's going to be too much positive. So maybe my article
46:00
will be something more grounded in reality. I like it. I don't know what yet, but I've got I'm
46:05
going to have to count I can tell already. I'm going to have to counter all this pie in the sky.
46:11
Oh my gosh. So yeah, for for all of you nonsubscribers yet, which what are you
46:17
doing? But if you're like, "Oh, if it's all pie in the sky, forget it." You
46:22
you've always got Crusty Kuba reality Reena. So yeah, she'll she'll
46:28
now I've got to sit there and now I've got to figure out I don't have much time to do it either. It's almost February. Yeah, we're we're already creating the
46:36
digest. So yeah, get ready. Okay. All right. Fire it up. Okay. So everybody else
46:42
though, feedback. Don't be afraid of it. Don't avoid it. We're professionals. We
46:49
owe it to ourselves and to our patients and to our team mates, to our bosses. We owe it to everybody to be okay with
46:56
feedback. Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in
47:02
knowing that you are not alone, but we also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try
47:09
in your practice. We value your feedback. So, please take a few moments to rate and review the
47:16
podcast. Finally, we want to make sure that we're covering the topics that matter to you. So track us down on
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Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and let us know what topics you want us to cover. As always, please know that we
47:32
are rooting for you today as you manage your dental drama.