Going Deep – Stress, Relationships, and Isolation

Bethany and Dr. Kuba take a more serious tone today as they address the very real hardships of leadership, management, and practice ownership. The bottom line is – it is extremely difficult. Struggling to successfully manage a dental practice and team is so challenging, in fact, that it can feel isolating…..like nobody truly understands the stresses of it all. The isolation can often lead to loneliness and even relationship struggles. Dr. Kuba reflects on how her expectations of her husband changed over the course of practice ownership and how she learned to find support in a variety of ways. While this episode is deep, it is absolutely essential to wrestle through this topic in order to comfort and positive coping strategies. 

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Transcript

Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama. Let's get started. Hey, friend. Hey.

0:25 How you doing? I'm I'm good. How are you?

0:28 I'm good. I've got kind of a heavy topic for us today. Okay. Let's do it.

0:33 So, I met with a colleague um that he's had his practice now maybe five or

0:41 six years um maybe four, I can't quite remember.

0:46 Um younger guy, like early to mid30s, I would say. Okay. Um and he's got uh one kid.

0:55 Okay.

0:57 wife is not in dental. I can't remember what she does, but she works. Okay. So, anyway, um met with him, whatever.

1:05 Uh met at a at a thing. And um they're just asking, you know, how's everything going? Blah blah blah. And he's like,

1:11 "Yeah, everything's fine." And then he kind of just said, "Well, I'm um you know, the homeront." Yeah.

1:18 And so I was like, "Huh?" And he was like, "Homer?" So I, you know, at that point I was kind of like, "What are we talking about here? homeront, meaning

1:25 your home, you've outgrown it, like you've got mortgage issues or your kid,

1:31 your wife. And so, he was kind of talking about wife. Okay.

1:35 And so, I didn't I didn't get a chance to get a lot of details, but bottom line, it sounds like he is taking a lot of work stuff home.

1:46 Okay.

1:46 You know, as an owner, it's never ending. Yeah.

1:49 Ever. So, and I guess wife maybe whatever job she does, she's,

1:55 you know, head of whatever at her company. So, I guess like the feeling I got was perhaps when he

2:03 first started the practice, it was like this is our office and we're doing this and you know, family business, whatever.

2:10 Like, and wife, I'll support you and whatever. But she's busy in her own right. They have a kid now, which I can't remember if they had the kid. It

2:18 it was probably coincident where they had the kid and then the practice or vice versa together two of each other. Yeah. I can't remember which came first.

2:26 Um anyway, so so to me it's like now four or five years in between the kid and the practice.

2:34 Oh yeah.

2:35 And um so it just made me kind of reflect back on that time for me.

2:42 Yeah. and just how I I was trying to remember all the things that were on my plate and I if I

2:51 remember correctly it was more like to like when you start your practice and you're like look at this look at what

2:59 we're building and and you know in my previous job these are the things that I really liked at that office these are the things that I think I can do

3:07 different and better that would suit my personality because as an associate I didn't really have say in certain operations this is going to be ours and

3:16 you know this is what we're doing and you know you're watching the patients come in and you're like this is working look at us and then the natural

3:24 progression of a practice and I think it was like year threeish fourish where now you got a couple of employees and all of

3:32 the things now that with growth things that change and the growth pressure points that you weren't really anticipating

3:40 and or staff turnover starting now or now you going I can't take this anymore like nonsense I took from my staff at

3:48 the beginning because we were together in this I it makes me think back about the episode we did the mega fish

3:55 you know and it was like so you had this staff that was like you were very lax with because you didn't really have rules cuz you really couldn't like you

4:03 really didn't have a set schedule and you really you know was and so now you're like I have had it with you coming in late I've had had it with you

4:10 taking off whatever days you want to take off. I've had it with you not learning and growing. You still only do the same two functions, yet you want to get paid as if you're doing four. Um,

4:20 and then you throw in you've got a kid in the works now. And so now home life is different, too. You've had to adjust to first it just being the two of you

4:28 and now it's like this kid and the kids needs and the kids like whatever and now spouse is getting busier in at their

4:36 company. So, it's like it's a lot of things that change and it's like something that was hard and but it was still fun. It was like we were building

4:45 and creating and now you're like the hell is happening on every front. Like I go home and wife's mad at this and you

4:52 know whatever. We can't agree with this for our kid and we can't agree on that.

4:57 We thought we were all on the same page about things but she wants that daycare.

5:02 I want this daycare. She wants to put him in karate. I want to put him in soccer. who's going to take the lessons and you know just stuff like that and then in the practice too you're like

5:11 wait a minute I am getting tired of Delta Dental and their like crappy pay and you know so alto together now it's

5:20 like yeah initially when we had all this time in the world to like wow our patients and deliver this experience and write this off because I didn't know any

5:29 better and you know now it's like wait what I'm I have what compliance issues wait what I was supposed to be doing what for payroll? I've not done this the

5:37 last four years. I was supposed to be doing what? Right? So, it's like all these things that start hitting and I was like, I remember that cuz it was

5:45 around year three or four that I was like, WTF, man, something's got to give.

5:50 Do I need a therapist? Do I need to medicate? Do I need to shut the whole thing down? Do I need a divorce? Do I

5:59 need to sell the practice? Like, what am I doing? And so it just brought all of that back like flashbacks and I was like, "Oh man,

6:08 I have no advice for you because other than it's normal." Yeah.

6:13 It's normal because right when you're like I am success because it's right around that time in a practice where you're like I'm not sweating that I've

6:21 got to pay that I'm going to meet this month's bills. Like it really takes two,

6:25 three, four years before you're finally like okay we are going to pay the bills. Yeah,

6:32 but then it's like you trade it for this whole other subset of like issues and you're tired at that point going I'm so tired of juggling all these balls. When

6:41 can things like normalize and be on autopilot? Yeah.

6:45 And it's like I thought we had made all these strides in the practice and yet now it's a whole new set of issues and

6:51 home life is so it just it brought all of that back to me and it made me just so nauseous for him. And so what do you

7:00 what do you do you see this with Oh my gosh. Yes. Okay.

7:07 I would say this is probably the prominent theme of all my client interactions. Not that

7:14 we're not putting out practice fires and and staffing issues and all of that.

7:20 Like obviously that's part for the consulting course that I get to deal with. But I would say there's this

7:27 undercurring undercurrent theme that is just the pressure of it all, the stress

7:34 of it all. And not just the stress of the practice, but the stress of what it

7:40 does to you outside the practice and how you do carry that home with you. And and it makes everything at home seem even

7:50 bigger than it actually may be. um because it just all feels like you're in this pressure cooker sit situation and

7:58 begins to all kind of meld together into being this one big crazy stressful life.

8:05 I I've I've sat I mean even recently I've sat with so many people that are

8:10 crumbling under the weight of it and it it's unfortunately a very sad reality of practice ownership.

8:23 I I do think there's some comfort in knowing that it is normal, but I think it's how do you navigate it well enough?

8:30 What what are what do you do with the stress of it all? It's not just grit your teeth and survive it. It's it's like no, we want this practice to be

8:39 successful. We want to have a happy team, but at the end of the day, we want to have a happy home, too. We we want to

8:46 we don't want to sacrifice that for the success of the practice, nor do we want to sacrifice the practice for the success of the home. How can this

8:54 ultimately all work together? So, no, I think this is probably the theme that I talk about with most of my clients

9:02 because it is, you know, when we mo most of us when we start a practice, we're not just like asked backwards falling into a practice. Like, we see it from the get-go going, "Wait,

9:11 what? How much money do I have to take out to start this? Do I really want to do this? Should I just not shut my mouth

9:18 and like take a paycheck and call it a day?" No, no, no. I I think I've got,

9:24 you know, things that I could make my own and I'm tired of having to follow these rules and I feel like, you know, I would like my independence and stuff

9:32 like that. I think what happens around year 3, 4ish, um, and and I guess it's different, maybe you would know better,

9:41 but I think that's the boat I was in. We had only been married for 2 years at the time that we had decided

9:48 to start a practice. And then by the time I started the practice and baby number one came along, it was like a year and a half into the practice.

9:56 So like uh three and a half years into marriage and we have our first child and we've got the practice for around a year.

10:06 Maybe it's different for people that have been married a long time or maybe.

10:09 But I feel like most of us that start a practice, it's around this time where you're kind of getting your footing in and going, "Okay, my dental skills are,

10:19 you know, they're where they should be.

10:22 I know what procedures I like. I know what I don't like. And hence, that's why I want to get out and start my own so that I can tailor it to what I want."

10:30 And usually that's corresponding with you're, you know, I'm getting married,

10:36 having babies. Some people may have had that already. Yeah.

10:39 So I can't really speak to that, but I do think it I think some of it, at least, let me speak for myself. I think some of what I

10:46 wonder if happened now that I'm reflecting back on it. Is it that in the practice life, you are kind of going

10:55 those first couple of years, it's such a phase of discovery and survival. and you're just surviving and gritting

11:02 through and gritting through and learning and soaking up as much as you can and pivoting, but you're still a people pleaser because you're trying to retain this staff. And I can't even

11:11 imagine in today's market like that was back when I would put up something on dental post and I'd have 60 applications, 80 applications. I can't

11:20 even imagine now the pressure of having your five applicants and you picked one and now you are going to dance around said applicant to make sure they're happy so they don't leave you.

11:30 Yeah.

11:32 And and then you're also tiptoeing around all your patients because you're trying to build this practice. So you're like, "Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, I'll open on Saturday." Yeah. Like whatever.

11:42 Right. So you're flipping. Yeah, sure.

11:43 I'll give you a discount on top of the Delta Dental 80% discount I'm already getting. Sure, I'll get paid nothing for this procedure cuz you're hoping that

11:51 they bring in family and all that and you hit this point at year three or four where you're like, I have had it. But then you go home and it's like maybe in the office where you are kind of going,

12:03 I'm putting my foot down. I'm growing a pair. I'm going to be vocal about things. Then did I and I can't remember.

12:10 I'd have to ask my husband. Did I go home and kind of put those expectations on him? Yeah.

12:15 No. I need you to do this. I need you to do that. Yeah, this is the way it's going to be with our kid. I don't think I was like that,

12:22 but it's very possible that air of like I have had it and I'm changing is now going to happen at home, too. Yeah.

12:29 Um, again, I don't think that was me, but it's it's possible it was. Well,

12:33 there's a there's a toughness that's developed in those first few years of the practice where you you do realize I

12:42 think I think there's this discovery phase that you're going through that while your spouse may contribute his or her thoughts or opinions to the process,

12:53 they're not in it with you. And you're the one slugging it out on a daily basis. And there's this this toughness,

13:01 this exterior toughness that I think is developed in that process either cuz we've been burned in the process or you

13:06 do realize, oh wow, no, this is on me. I while I appreciate his or her opinions

13:14 in the process, like ultimately this this thing lives and dies with me. And I think that the weight of that begins to set in by year three or four where it's like,

13:26 okay, we're out of survival mode and now we're moving into this phase of the

13:32 practice that maybe maybe is less problematic, but also maybe we've just gotten used to it. We're a little bit more

13:40 comfortable in our own skin being a practice owner. um we're making decisions a little bit differently and

13:47 then we realize in that process that it's changed who we are, you know, and

13:54 um it's interesting. Uh my daughter and I were watching this movie last night.

13:58 We've been on a Jennifer Lawrence kick lately and so we watched a movie called Joy, which I would highly recommend

14:05 because it was it's a true story of uh the QVC lady. Her name's Joy Mandino, I

14:13 think. But she was essentially a self-made woman. She, you know, had this product idea,

14:20 launched it, but her family was very much involved in this business, and she had a lot of skin in the game, you know,

14:28 mortgaged her, reorggaged her house, and but her her her sister was involved, her dad was involved, her ex-husband was

14:34 involved. And so you see the process of this woman that she goes through and and how she's just fights for this thing,

14:44 but not without the stress of her family involved. And the family actually caused a lot of problems in in her growth

14:52 process cuz they were involved in the business, but it wasn't their product.

14:56 And they weren't the one that ultimately got this thing off the ground, but they had a lot of opinions in the process.

15:02 And you know, watching this this woman go through this, I thought this is so

15:09 relatable to dental practice owners because their family often is involved.

15:15 Whether it's a spouse, whether it's a sister, whether it's parents that have helped, you know, finance this thing that often times it's not done in

15:23 isolation. You've got somebody that you're bringing along with you in the process, but they're not actually there.

15:31 It's not actually they're the dentist.

15:33 It's you. You're the one that's owning this practice.

15:37 You're the one that can get the board complaint. You're the one who the bank is going to come after if things aren't met. Like it's it's you.

15:45 Yes. It's it's like mega fish all over again.

15:47 I keep going back to that episode we did, but it's like these team members that start with you and they're like slugging it out with you. They are in the trench with you.

15:56 Yeah. But at a point, it does come to where at the end of the day, you're not the one that's going to be on the line

16:03 for when Miss Smith complains that her crown didn't come back on time. And you're not the one who the bank's going to hold accountable, right,

16:11 for the half million that we signed on for for this equipment loan. It's not you. It's on me. Yeah.

16:16 Um so you can have all the opinions you want to and you can be a part of this,

16:19 but you are not. So then do some of us realize that or is it subconsciously in the back of our brains where we're kind of just tired of being told what to do

16:28 or tired of weighing all the opinions to make everybody happy and we're like never mind like I'm doing this and now everybody around you is like you're a like

16:36 you've let this go to your head and it's like no I haven't. I've just changed but I have changed. Yes,

16:43 I have ch the process has changed me. How do I make sure that I stay grounded?

16:49 That I still try to get because at that point at year three, four, you're like, okay, I have I'm tired,

16:55 I have slugged it out because the vision was I wanted to do these things. How do I get there? Yeah.

17:02 Like you said, I'm out of survival mode now. How do I tweak this to be something that I do enjoy because I don't know that I'm enjoying it right now?

17:10 Yeah. Um and and then with all the changes that are potentially happening in your home life,

17:17 and then how are you juggling all of those, even having a kid? Yeah.

17:22 You know, it's like, well, I thought I would get to spend these days with our kid at home. Yeah.

17:28 And I thought you were going to handle these aspects of child rearing, but it turns out you and I don't see eye to eye on that. I am okay giving, you know,

17:40 boiling a box of craft mac and cheese, but you want it to be all organic food. Yeah. Well, who's doing the shopping for that?

17:48 Who's doing the cooking for that? Who's doing the What about my dinner?

17:52 We used to eat healthy. Who's doing, you know, it's like I feel like there's just so many things that kind of change and you are going, "The hell am I doing?"

18:00 like this was my vision and the vision doesn't line up at all whether it's home or or out of a spouse.

18:07 I thought you were my guy because of XYZ. Now, I will say I I you know, we have been I think we're celebrating 18 years this year.

18:16 He is still the best thing that's ever happened to me. I am so grateful. But I think there were moments where I'm like, I could blow all of this.

18:24 Yeah. because I'm bringing the intensity of work home and just because he's a nice sweet guy doesn't mean I should take advantage of that.

18:33 Um, and so I had to catch myself a lot of times. Yeah.

18:36 And I will say it was probably around year 3, four, five that I was like, I need to find a therapist.

18:43 I need to talk to my doctor about anxiety control, anger management.

18:47 I think that's the time I started reaching out to you and like you came on board to help me. So, I think it's because of me going, "Wait a minute. I

18:55 had never had aspirations to own a practice.

19:00 We started the practice so that I could be." When we decided we wanted to have kids, I was like, "Okay, I don't know what that's going to be like for me. So,

19:09 I want to make sure I'm not I want to make sure I have the freedom to have a career because I've spent a lot of time

19:18 going down that path, but also to be a good mama at home, even though I didn't really know what that meant. Like, what was a good mama? I don't know. Um,

19:26 so having to go back to that and go, wait a minute,

19:30 was starting a practice my my goal in life and now this husband and kid have gotten in the way of that.

19:36 Yeah. or do I need to shut that down?

19:40 No, I could still have both, but I need to be very mindful of going, how do I make sure I don't ruin the home or ruin

19:47 the practice? I think that just the awareness needs to be there first of all. Yeah.

19:52 Like, so can we all admit to ourselves that something's not quite the way it needed to be and then what am I doing to fix that?

20:00 Yes. Which to me is exactly how you start navigating through this. And I and I do think and maybe it's not 3 or 4 years,

20:08 maybe it's 2 or 3 years for some people,

20:10 maybe it's seven or eight years, I don't know, but there is this moment where you

20:17 recognize like this is not what I envisioned it to be. either the practice isn't my marriage isn't me juggling all

20:25 the home like something is not going the way that I wanted it to go

20:31 and trying to identify what that is and your path to fixing it which I mean I

20:39 know I say this all the time but your choice to bring on a therapist at that point you've got to have somebody that

20:48 is supporting you that is not your spouse. There are so many emotions,

20:56 frustrations, overwhelming things that happen to a practice owner that the spouse can not identify with. They

21:05 can't. And a lot of times, male or female, by the way, th this is not just talking to females. I can't tell you how many males that I sit with that feel

21:13 alone in their journey of practice ownership because the wife cannot identify with what they're going through.

21:20 Now, let me ask you this. What if the wife is also a dentist or a uh hygienist or something like that?

21:28 I would still recommend unless you are both practice owners. Correct.

21:32 In which case, I don't think y'all would be having these issues because you would both see the issues. Well, you actually

21:39 you would be surprised because even if they're both owners, they're still experiencing things very differently simply based on gender.

21:47 Okay?

21:48 It's just a completely different not that they c they can talk about it in a deeper way than somebody that is a

21:54 dentist with a non-dental spouse, but even that the ability to unload your

22:01 emotions on somebody that you know it's not going to also tank their day is so helpful. And so even that just going I

22:10 know I need help but I don't know what help I need. therapy. Just go go that p start there and then try to navigate

22:18 with your therapist what needs to happen because I do think there's some and again I'm 100%

22:26 dentist advocate like that my heart bleeds for dentists and practice owners.

22:31 That's but I was brought up under a dentist. I could see the stress that he walked through. Um and so my heart goes

22:39 out to my clients. But sometimes I feel like dentists, practice owners in particular, have an unfair expectation of their spouse.

22:50 They expect them to feel the same level of stress that they feel, to have the same thoughts, the same reactions to

22:58 staff issues or to patient issues, and they're they're frustrated when their spouse doesn't feel the same weight of

23:06 it. I'm like, that's that's not fair. We cannot expect our spouse to be as fully invested as we are. Even if they're in

23:14 the practice, if they work in the practice, um they still aren't going to experience it in the same way that the practice owner is going to experience

23:22 it. And so, you got to have an outlet to dump all of those burdens. And and I don't know that, not that your spouse

23:30 can't be that some of the way, but I would not expect them to be that all of the way. you need.

23:36 And I think that's one mistake I did make where I would, you know, vent to him about things and first of all, I would get very frustrated cuz I could see where her his eyes would kind of

23:44 just wander off. I'm like, you're not listening to me. Yeah.

23:47 I'm pouring my heart out to you and you you couldn't give a fly and flip that I'm this stressed out. Well, that's not fair.

23:54 But he's just kind of like, I know it's the same story, like different verse of what you were sharing two days ago.

24:00 Like, yeah, you have crazy patience. I get it. Yeah. Your staff's not living up to your expectations. I get it. like you already said that. Yeah.

24:06 And I'm like what do you mean like you know that you can't? And then it finally I was like you know it to the point too

24:13 where he would try to sometimes either just like I could tell his eyes were like he was you know dazing off or he

24:22 was trying to p problem solve and then I'd get mad him mad at him for that cuz I'm like that's not going to work because of this

24:29 and he's just trying to help. But ultimately I was like what am I doing?

24:32 Like I'm bringing my baggage home expecting him to have the same venom that I do. I'm like, but that's not a good thing. If we both have the same

24:40 amount of venom, then how are we problem solving? We need one level-headed person here.

24:44 Like if I'm going to be the emotion person, I need a logical person. But now you are trying to be logical and I'm not okay with that either because I don't like your logic cuz this doesn't match up to what I'm dealing with. So for me

24:53 then I was like, you know, I think a lot of times that too where it can be my spouse sucks. You don't see things the

25:00 way I see it. Maybe a divorce is No, it's that's not their job or their role and it's not a fair like you said

25:08 it's not a fair expectation. I need to find an outside source. Yeah.

25:11 Which that's why I always say you are like my therapist because and to me it's like I'm getting you know bang for my buck here because

25:18 not only because all my stresses come from the office. Well, you're helping me problem solve them but I'm also able to vent to you. Yeah.

25:24 Great. Um but if I didn't have that at least a therapist on the side.

25:28 Yeah. and realistic expectations for whoever is involved in your business,

25:34 whether that's your spouse, a sibling, a parent, whoever your your support person is. Balance your expectations for them.

25:41 It it's just it if you're going in and we are starting this business together,

25:46 whoever that we is, if they're not if they have their own career or their own or or even they're the stay-at-home

25:55 parent, the stay-at-home dad or the stay-at-home mom, and and you're the working parent, even that, they're not going to they're not in the practice

26:04 like you are. They don't share the same burden that you do in the practice. So they may be helpful in their own way,

26:11 but they're not going to see it from the same vantage point, and it's unfair for you to expect that of them. So temper your own expectations.

26:20 A or maybe we started this practice and then your wife's career took off or your

26:27 husband's career took took off and and y'all weren't expecting that and now they're not as supportive as you had

26:35 imagined them to be. Okay, how are you pivoting? H what support were you expecting from him or her? And how can

26:43 you now supplement for that? Uh so I I just think there's got to be a lot of expectation setting and and not just

26:52 once, but now we're in a different phase. Now we've got three kids. Okay,

26:57 now how do our expectations of each other change? And so I think we've we've got to spend time there and then supplementing.

27:08 Like it's not just like, "Oh, well, there goes my support. Now she's going to be the stay-at-home mom and and not involved in the practice anymore. I guess I'm on my own and now I've just

27:17 got to forge ahead." No. Supplement your wife's absence with with a therapist or with a consultant or with a really good

27:25 CPA that you can reach out to. I don't know. but or a manager that maybe you were able to do without but now you need or on the

27:33 home front if you guys can't decide like who's going to be in charge cuz you both are busy all the time get an Annie. Yeah.

27:40 Who's going to get sign up for a meal plan thing like I don't look to resources. Yeah.

27:46 What are your resources? What are your pain points? And where can you reach out and get help?

27:51 Question I have for you. What about the I'm thinking of a colleague of mine that uh his wife is the manager.

28:00 Yeah.

28:00 And like she knows more about the practice than he does. Yeah.

28:03 Like I think I remember even once, this is early on. We both started our practices at the same time and I think I said something like, "Oh, well, what PA are you looking at or what X-ray system, whatever." And he's like, "Uh, I don't know. Let me ask her." And I was like,

28:12 "What?" Like she's not a dentist. How do But she was the one negotiating and researching and whatever. That's their dynamic. He's very much the dentist, the doctor, and she handles everything else.

28:25 Like he doesn't know about insurance claims, materials, staffing. Like he is hands off and all of that, but I would

28:32 imagine they both do feel the same pressure.

28:36 Pressure. Although I almost like how do you not feel it more to the female? Yeah.

28:41 Cuz he's just you tell him when to show up and to do these procedures. Yeah. But it's still his money on the I mean,

28:49 it's her money, too. I don't know.

28:51 Yeah. And that may be one of those situations where they both feel an equal amount of pressure. They're still going to see it differently cuz they're in

29:00 different roles, they're different genders, um all of that, but they may feel the same amount of pressure in different ways and can absolutely be supportive of each other in that way.

29:10 But even still, I would say guard yourself for putting too much pressure on that relationship because at the end of the

29:18 day, my dad said it best several months ago when he was on the podcast, it's all for not. If we end up with a really

29:26 successful practice and no family, you know, it it's just not or or no friends or whatever the case may be, it's not

29:34 worth burning ourselves completely to the ground for this practice and to have nothing outside of that. That's not

29:42 healthy. And so I think remembering even in this situation with your friend where they're both equally feeling the stress

29:49 of it all, also don't overburden that relationship. you you still have to have a relationship at the end of this thing.

29:56 It's almost like the uh empty neester syndrome, you know, where it's like if a couple has put all of their effort and energy into raising their kids and then

30:05 the kids are graduated and out of the house and they're like, "What do we do with us now?" Like, there was never an us. It was always about the kids. I

30:11 could imagine that being a very real possibility with this couple if they haven't really invested in their relationship outside of the practice.

30:21 It's like it can't just be all contingent upon the practice.

30:24 When I think back to the original colleague, like with him, I I think we tend to be like, you don't understand.

30:32 I've got this. Fine. Fine. I'm alone. I have to deal with my patients. I have to deal with my team. I have to deal with the bank. I have to deal with the CPA. I have to deal with the server going down.

30:41 I've me me. I got to problem solve all this. Okay. Now, I come home and now you're telling me I didn't help with the dishes or I didn't reload the diaper bag

30:48 or I didn't take You know what? I don't need that from you, too. And or I need you to handle all of that because I'm already putting out all these fires over

30:56 here. You can't do it. Then get out of my way. I got that, too. I got the kid. I got No. Where's the joy in that? Like,

31:03 reach out for help and know your own limitations, I guess. And it's okay to to have limitations. You have them.

31:11 Yeah.

31:12 So, what are your limitations? And then reflecting back on what is it that you want? That's why again I I know I always mock your goal setting but that's what's

31:20 important at the end of you know at certain times to kind of go wait like this is not what I was wanting. Now do you have unrealistic expectations of the spouse of yourself?

31:30 Yeah.

31:30 Of the office like what you thought the office was going to bring you of right.

31:34 So having to sit back and go okay what did I want? Is that still what I want?

31:40 Yeah. Where can I pivot to make these changes so that I can get as close to what I wanted?

31:48 Yes. And or to make like I always thought I wanted to be married. I thought this is the man I wanted to be married to. Yeah.

31:55 He sucks. He's not adding anything to my life. He's making my life harder. He's not helping. Is that true? Right.

32:01 Did you pick wrong or have you changed and you're not holding up your end of the bargain of what you were wanting for

32:08 this marriage, right? and how can you salvage that and pivot? Um, but I think a lot of this happens so fast and we're

32:15 not able to go back and reflect on it and suddenly it is one of those moments where you're like things just aren't right on the home front. Yeah.

32:23 Or things just aren't right in the practice.

32:25 Yeah, you're exactly right. The speed at which things unravel is is where it gets us because we don't

32:33 even take the time to realize it's unraveling until we're in a puddle of an unraveled mess.

32:41 It's like the smoke signals, but we didn't smell the smoke. We're like, "Something smells weird. Keep going." Yeah,

32:48 that burned out. Okay, that's okay. I'll fix that. I'll fix that. I'll fix that. I don't know. I don't know. Keep going.

32:53 Keep going. Keep going. And then suddenly you're like,

32:55 then it blows up. fire. Yeah, it's fire in the kitchen and it's like, how did I not see that?

33:00 Oh, yeah. You're right. I did hear the alarm. Yeah,

33:02 I just thought that was, you know what I mean? It's like you're you're so move, move, go, plow ahead, plow ahead, achieve, achieve. Yeah.

33:09 That it's like we need to kind of stop a minute and go, wait a minute. Is something on fire?

33:17 Yeah. especially proud of him for saying and because I was like that takes a lot to acknowledge that and not to acknowledge that just to yourself but to verbalize it to a colleague.

33:26 Yeah.

33:26 And so we started troubleshooting about I was like well what does she like to do like could you what was the last time like if she's a movie person? When was the last time you went to the movies or

33:35 when was the last time y'all took a little station if you can't travel or when was the last time you got a babysitter? And he was like you know I I I can't

33:44 remember. I was like well that's a problem. Yeah, that's a problem.

33:47 Yeah. And and I agree with you. The fact that he what if he wouldn't have said that you you

33:54 asked him how everything's going, he's like, "Great, all good. All good here."

33:59 And then he would have missed the opportunity to receive that advice from you. So, I do think being vulnerable enough to tell somebody like, you know,

34:07 it doesn't feel like it's going very well. It feels a and verbalizing that to somebody, anybody, and receiving that

34:15 advice, I think, is almost like the first step. It's like you got to admit that I'm unraveling right now. Or think,

34:22 and maybe it's not fire yet, but maybe it is a smoke signal and you're like,

34:26 "Something's off. I can't quite put my finger on it." But say that and get somebody to help speak into some

34:34 solutions and be willing to accept those. And I think also just coming to terms with the fact that

34:42 being a practice owner is a very isolating experience. It it there's a loneliness involved in it that feels

34:51 wrong when you do have a significant person in your life. You're like, "But I shouldn't feel alone in this. I'm I'm

34:58 married. I've got a spouse that should be supporting me through this." So there can be some natural bitterness that develops where you're like, I don't want

35:06 to feel alone in this and and he should be doing more to to support me or she should be doing more to support me. And

35:13 I think you've got to just come to terms with the fact that there is an isolating feeling that occurs in practice ownership where even if you've got great

35:22 colleagues that own their practice and they've got their own headaches, it still never feels like it's exactly your scenario because it's not. Every

35:30 practice is different. Every team is different. Every patient base is different. I always say practices are as unique as a fingerprint. I I've never

35:38 stepped into two practices or that are the same. And I've been doing this a long time. And so it is isolating in a

35:45 lot of ways. And that's okay. There it there's nothing wrong with that. I know that can feel suffocating at times, but that's where you just own the fact, no,

35:56 this is normal. Now, what am I doing to help me through this that doesn't pull on everybody else's emotional resources?

36:04 What can I do to help myself? Maybe that is medication. Um, maybe that is therapy. Maybe that is, you know,

36:12 changing out a certain team member that just really is sucking that last little bit of joy that you have and you're like, I got to I got to move on from that person. I don't know what it is,

36:21 but I think there's got to be some acceptance of the fact that that this is isolating and that's normal. Uh, but now you got to supplement for that.

36:32 Well, it is a heavy sub.

36:34 But then when you do think about it and then when you flip it the other way and you know when because it it goes up and down, right? It's always going to be

36:42 it's never going to be static. And for me, I'm in a phase right now where I'm like, no, I I am getting joy both out of the practice and out of home life. like

36:49 I I think I am in a good neutral place and to be grateful for that. Um we might come back and do an episode on y'all know I started a a satellite practice.

36:58 I'm shutting down the satellite practice. It's been less than a year. Yeah.

37:01 And I'm so grateful that my significant other is not judging me. Yeah.

37:07 Because it was our money's involved in starting up and he never said, "Wait,

37:13 what are you doing? Why are you what are you?" He was very supportive and was like, "All right, you do you. If that's something you want to do, let me know

37:19 how I can help." Um, shutting down, I didn't ask him. I kind of I I think I told you I put you, the accountant, and him on the same email where I was like,

37:30 "All right, guys. I've made a decision. I'm not moving forward with this." Yeah.

37:33 So, he found out via email that I'm not carrying on because I was in a sub lease situation. I don't want to sign the lease again. And um so there are a

37:43 couple tens of thousands of dollars that are down the toilet because of my little adventure experience. And he has been nothing but supportive. Yeah.

37:51 He's not asked one question. He's not been like, "Wait, what? Are you out of your mind?" Or, "I told you you shouldn't have done this or why would you?" Nothing.

37:59 Yeah.

37:59 But we've cultivated that relationship over the last 18 years. Yeah. And so,

38:07 um, you know, right now I I am very grateful that I've got somebody who does support me, but I think it's also

38:13 because the times where I would I know there were times where I had unrealistic expectations of him and I've let that go.

38:22 And so, I think we can both be. And I don't pick on him for his choices at work. I let him be and let

38:29 him decide what he's doing and he lets me decide what I'm doing. And we're at a place with the kids now that, you know,

38:35 early on I think there was it was an imbalance where I was bitter because I felt like I was trying to keep this practice alive and I had two littles at

38:44 home and but how much of that was me not how much of it was me saying this is how it should be with our kids?

38:53 Mhm.

38:54 Instead of I think I was always making him feel like he wasn't doing enough. Yeah.

39:00 or wasn't doing it the way I wanted to do. I wanted it done. So then he's like, "Okay, if that's how you want it done, then I'll just back off." Well,

39:08 then I view that as you're being lazy. You're putting it all on me.

39:11 So, I mean, you know, we went through a couple of years of that.

39:15 Dare I say now it's like 8020 the other way. Yeah.

39:21 Like 70% of the kids stuff he handles, 30% I do. For years it was flipped the other way. way now. Could we come to a moment now where he's like, "I need you to step up."

39:31 He might have to say that to me.

39:32 Never would have thought that 3 years ago, 4 years ago, but that's the phase we're in now where I'm sure he's like, "You're the one who's slacking." Yeah.

39:40 So, anyway, it's but it's just that awareness and and making sure that you are being realistic with what are your

39:48 shortcomings first of all. Do you have Yeah. unrealistic asks? And then if you don't,

39:54 what are you doing to foster these relationships whether it's with your teammates, your spouse, your kids?

40:01 Yeah. And allowing the eb and flow of it like you are just describing like there's there's seasons that we walk through that are going to be different

40:10 and we may have to reccalibrate our expectations during particular seasons of life. And uh the main thing is that

40:18 we're keeping this constant um expectation of an output like we this thing does need to be held together.

40:26 This practice needs to be held together. This family needs to be held together. This marriage needs to be held together.

40:31 Um and I think if we keep that at the forefront, then we're constantly pivoting to the circumstances to make

40:39 sure that that happens. So we've got some family friends. They're not dental at all. Um, but same thing like they got married around the time we

40:47 did. They had kids around the same time we did. So, we were all and the wife in the family decided to start her own

40:54 consulting business. Um, and it took off, but it took off after years of her,

41:02 you know, killing it like we do in dental. And husband was there and he was the one who would when she would have to travel a lot. He was there with the kids. He's the one who did all of this.

41:12 And it's really sad now. Like they're divorced and she just got to where she was like,

41:19 I have done this. I had a goal. I made this happen. And my husband and I are like, but you didn't on your own. He was

41:26 the one who sacrificed all of these things. He could have done whatever with his business. He tried to start a business as well,

41:34 but you were the stronger personality. So your need, he let you have your needs first. He went back to a regular job.

41:45 M um and then fast forward, you know, now several years after the divorce and I ask her, I'm like, you know, where how are you feeling? And she's like,

41:52 you know, I honestly feel like I was never one who should have gotten married in the first place.

41:55 I'm I feel like everybody else was getting married and as an Indian female, I that was what I was supposed to do.

42:04 And she's like, but if I go back and if I'm true to myself, I I don't know that I ever should have been married.

42:08 Wow.

42:08 And so she recognizes that she's one that she knows she's difficult to get along with. She knows that she's,

42:16 you know, a very um alpha.

42:21 I've got this. I can do this. I whatever.

42:24 Um but I do think that it's wrong that she was just like, "You're lazy. Your your business didn't work out because

42:31 you were lazy." I'm like, "Uh, not really, honey. If you were watching it from the sidelines, he sacrificed a lot so that your business could take off.

42:40 Yeah. And you never repaid the favor. Yeah.

42:43 And now you're throwing it in his face that you didn't do enough. I don't know what you bring to this family. I don't know what you're bringing to me. I've

42:50 got the kids. I manage them better. I've got I make more money than you do. I don't. So, she kind of took off on that path. Those of us watching were like,

42:58 "Well, good for you that you got out of that toxic relationship for him."

43:01 For him. Yeah.

43:01 But I almost feel like it could go a lot the other way. Yeah.

43:06 Because a lot of times the female is the one that stays home with the kids, sacrifices her career.

43:11 Um anyway, maybe that has nothing to do with dental per se, but it just has to do with what what do you want if you wanted this marriage to work.

43:19 Yeah.

43:20 You need to figure out like he he's not a bum. He's working. He's Anyway,

43:27 I agree. I think it's just that perspective taking and just choosing to fight for it, you know, in whatever way

43:34 that looks like. Um, and that's not easy, but I think it's worthwhile, honestly. So, good topic,

43:44 heavy, but important. So, thanks for bringing it up. Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are

43:53 comforted in knowing that you are not alone, but we also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your practice.

44:02 We value your feedback, so please take a few moments to rate and review the podcast.

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44:21 As always, please know that we are rooting for you today as you manage your dental drama.