Encore Performance

Encore Performance: While disgruntled patients have always been a reality, they seem to be growing in number. The combination of massive social and economic changes has turned even some of the nicest patients into grumps. In this world-wide rise of grumpiness, the dental field certainly gets hit hard by the patients who are simply looking to fight. In this episode, Dr. Kuba and Bethany discuss specific disgruntled patient examples from just the last week and share insights on how they each handled or would have handled the patient. The ability to successfully deescalate a tense situation is very complicated. However, over the last two years, it has become increasingly difficult. Listen in as Dr. Kuba and Bethany discuss this topic and their strategies for dealing with unhappy patients. 

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Transcript

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00:09
Are you looking for a podcast where you can hear from real people regarding their real dental drama? If so, then

00:17
you've come to the right place. Join hosts Bethany Penny and Dr. Reena Kuba as we dive into the solutions we've created and the mistakes we've made while managing dental drama. Let's get started.

00:24
Well, hello today. Um, so I'm going to just jump right in and um, my bile is rising just even getting ready to introduce what I want to talk about today with you. Gosh.

00:31
Um, and as usual, I will be the first to say I don't have answers to a lot of this, but I think just talking it out loud and commiserating together, like if

00:44
nothing else, um, I'm sure many people are dealing with some sort of version of this. And um again, I don't have any solutions other than I hope we're not in this alone, like you know. Um so the

01:01
topic is disgruntled patients. I know we talk about that a lot and um but I just feel like it's it's um people are so

01:10
volatile these days with so much going on in the world.

01:13
And um so I'm going to just start off with with an example here. And then um actually before I get to the example uh

01:21
you and I were at Sprig Live um a couple of weeks ago and we gave a talk on uh deescalation and tips on how to

01:30
deescalate. So ours was actually a workshop where we did audience interaction and kind of led people through um how to deescalate a situation

01:39
so you're not having these like explosions in your office. And afterwards, one of the attendees came up to us and was asking us questions on,

01:51
you know, what she should do. And basically, she's, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, is she a new practice owner?

01:56
She is not the owner. So, she is an associate in this practice, but she's the only doctor there. The assoc I mean,

02:03
the owner never comes in. So, she even though she doesn't own the practice, she is the lead in that practice. and young

02:12
in her career. I think one year under her belt, something like that. Yeah, that that's what I remember, too.

02:17
Yeah, it was probably within her first year that she's she's been there. And she said she got a one-star review. Um,

02:25
and it was a patient's mom and she's like, I don't even know what it was a it was a baby. So, this is a pediatric dentist and it was an infant oral health visit, whatever it was. And she's like,

02:36
I mean, there was nothing really that happened in the visit. and the review was a one-star. The doctor was very

02:43
condescending and we didn't care for her demeanor and we will not be back there.

02:48
And so really it seemed like it was just a personal attack on the doctor for no reason.

02:53
Um and so we kind of gave her differing advice and uh so I thought that would be a good one to talk about here. Can you add to that? Tell me what you advised.

03:01
Yes. So the doctor asked both of us,

03:05
should I contact this parent? First of all, she was deeply offended by the offended and concerned by the review.

03:14
She was like, "I've never been nobody's ever told me that I have bad chairside manner." And I the fact that I would

03:21
come across condescending to a parent. I don't know how that happened. She was very confused and concerned about the feedback. And she said, "If there's

03:29
something I'm doing wrong, I really need to know about it. and this review doesn't really tell me exactly what I did wrong other than I came across as

03:37
condescending. Should I call this parent? And so my immediate answer was absolutely you should. And the reason

03:45
for that is first of all this was one of her first negative reviews. Um again young in her career. And so my take on

03:54
negative reviews is there's always something to learn or to glean from those reviews. And so because she wanted to know how did I come across this way?

04:03
Is is this something that maybe is happening more often that I don't know about? I told her the only way to know about that is to go directly to the source and to reach out to this parent.

04:12
Now there's a high likelihood that the parent won't respond, won't answer,

04:16
won't give her the feedback that she needs, but at least she's tried to get some information. And my exact advice was, you know, call the parent, let them

04:24
know that you'd love to get some feedback. you would never want to come across as condescending. And could they tell you how exactly you came across as

04:32
condescending? And if the parent answered and if the parent chose to answer her question to just listen uh not to justify, not to defend herself,

04:42
not to explain herself, but just listen to the feedback and then say, "You know what? I really appreciate that you taking the time to tell me that. Um it

04:49
gives me some things to think about and and I just really appreciate your time today." That's it. And then ultimately she either gets some information out of

04:56
that that's helpful for her in how she communicates or she doesn't and she's at least allowed the parent an outlet. You as I was telling her this I could feel

05:06
the the chasm developing where it's like she's she's not on the same page. So tell your response.

05:12
So my response of course um was no I I would not call this parent but your advice makes perfect sense and

05:21
maybe that's what I would have done years ago. and you pointed out that with her being in her career, it's not like she's got a lot of good reviews to buffer the one bad one.

05:32
Um, and so you're right. I it I probably at a point did want to find out like what I did and I still do. I mean, it's

05:40
not like I don't want to, but to me this feels like a personal attack. Um,

05:45
because if you're just going through all your baby exam stuff, like you should be brushing this way or there's gingivitis here or whatever. So, I think I guess to

05:52
me I'm playing the conversation out and like what would I say? So, hi Mrs.

05:58
Smith. You left me a bad review. I'm really sad about it. Like what did I do wrong? You know, I just didn't know like to me again I'm so delicate that I think

06:07
it would hurt my feeling. like it's probably already hurt my feelings and now to go and have to analyze and dissect like I just worry that myself

06:15
going forward will I continue to blunder even more because it would have been such a blow to my confidence, right?

06:21
Um and I see your point that it's probably already a blow to your confidence and so it's better to have some answers. Um, but I just to me again

06:29
if it was something specific that the parent had, but when it's just this blanket kind of vague statement of we didn't like the doctor then I'm like but

06:37
then if you don't like me then you don't like me and I not everybody can like me.

06:42
I wish they did. Um, so I don't know. I think that was my gut reaction was just just the thought of physically picking up the phone and what am I going to say?

06:50
Like you know you didn't like me. Why didn't you like me? all I was trying to do. But you're right, like your point of saying don't don't really try to explain because I think that's what I would do.

06:59
Yeah. Well, I didn't mean to sound this way.

07:01
The only reason I was saying this was because I saw this. I was trying to help you with whatever. So, I think that's key. Um that Yeah, just be ready to listen.

07:11
Um but I think for me, I was just like I just don't see how I could just see myself either getting so crushed and apologizing 10,000 times for something

07:19
that I don't know that I really mean the apology.

07:22
um or becoming uh um defensive defensive of it. Yeah.

07:29
Or aggressive and going, "Well, this woman's just insane, you know, how could she?" So, I just for me personally was like, "I don't know that how much good is going to come of this."

07:38
Um so, I kind of almost was like, "Well,

07:40
could you have a somebody else in the practice maybe reach out and say, "Hey,

07:44
you know, I'm the office manager. I'm the hygienist and I look at our reviews and we saw this review and it was quite concerning to both of us and um you know

07:53
I thought I would be a neutral party where you know if there's something you want to let the doctor know I mean she's she is very concerned about how she came across. Yeah. Um,

08:02
and I think that's a good alternative to that because the patient is still being contacted or in this case the parent um

08:09
the the team member is really saying on behalf of the doctor she's concerned wants to make sure you have a good way

08:15
of of telling us what went wrong and that parent may be more honest with the

08:23
staff member than they would be directly with the doctor and it can still come across as a caring phone call. So, I think that's a good alternative

08:30
because my fear would be if it was me alone, too. And I'm not saying anything and the parent's like, "Well, you said this this way and you criticized my brushing and then my kid cried and you

08:39
know, I just felt like a horrible parent because you okay, well, thank you for the feedback." And I hang up. Then I'm like, then is the parent going to go,

08:45
"You still don't care. You didn't apologize for anything." So, I just I think in my hands in a more skilled,

08:52
savvy person, but me, I I'm one of those people who, you know, is like, "Oh man,

08:55
I should have said this or I should have said that." I don't know if anybody's seen the Seinfeld episode, the jerk store with George and the shrimp comment. Anyway, we we laugh about that,

09:04
but like that's who I am where I'm like 2 days later I'm like, "Oh man, I should have said this." Um, so for me, like those conversations being put on the

09:12
spot like that are really stressful. And um and then would that trigger another thing? the doctor actually called me and

09:19
had nothing good to say and I'm so glad in my decision of I just so I would probably pun it but um I did

09:27
see the value in what you were saying if you can sound sincere and I think it's getting into the right headsp space before you make that phone

09:34
call um so if you yourself are the one that's going to be making it you've first of all got to give yourself you know at least a day or two to kind of

09:41
recover from that negative review and to process it cuz we always have an emotional reaction to that. And what we don't want to do is call that parent in

09:50
the height of our emotion and therefore we are more defensive or angry about it.

09:57
We've got to be in the headspace of listen, do I have something to learn from this conversation? And that's what I'm looking for is to make sure that

10:06
this is not something pervasive that other patients are seeing that I didn't realize. And that's what we're going for. And if there's nothing to be gained

10:14
from that conversation, okay, nothing there was nothing to be gained, but at least we made the phone call. And then oftentimes, I would say there's at least

10:22
one nugget or one takeaway um that can happen. You know, it's interesting. I've got um a client that is super bold in her dealings with disgruntled patients.

10:33
So, she practices in a very uh affluent area. They have very high expectations and make those expectations really well

10:42
known and they're the ones that you know you your job is to bend over backwards for me and I as the patient owe you nothing. You know it's just a very

10:51
difficult demographic and so it is not uncommon for her to receive complaints.

10:58
So she sees uh all of the emails uh she's copied on that. So when it comes into the main info box she also gets a

11:06
copy of those. So, she's very aware of those complaints when they come in via email. She's constantly looking at reviews. Um, they she's the emergency

11:14
contact on the weekends for her practice. And so, sometimes she'll get complaints directly over the phone. And I always um I can't think about her

11:23
without smiling cuz she's so bold in she doesn't shy away from these interactions. She's not afraid of them.

11:31
she if she knows that, hey, we failed on some part, she's willing to admit that and and you know, make restitution for

11:39
that. But most of the time, it's just unrealistic expectations from the patient and they're crazy and and she's

11:47
willing to just approach that head-on and she doesn't shy away from those. She handles those with grace, but also with confidence. And when her team needs to

11:56
be defended, she is coming to the defense of her team. And so one of the things that I think plays into how we respond to disgruntled patients is our

12:05
disposition, our personality. She's that strong calleric where she's not going to back down from a fight. And it's gone

12:12
really well for her because she's consistent in the way that she responds.

12:18
So I think we've got to have we can't fluctuate in how we deal with disgruntled. Like, oh, we're going to deal with this one, but we're going to

12:25
just ignore this one. we're going to respond to this negative review, but we're just going to ignore that one.

12:30
We've got to figure out what is our our game plan here and how are we going to move forward with consistency. And I

12:39
think that's a good takeaway. You know yourself well enough to know you're not going to call every single patient that hasn't complained against the practice

12:46
or leaves a negative review. You're not going to. It makes you sick. It makes you uncomfortable. It is not something that is going to be the norm for you.

12:55
So, don't make it the norm. Right? If that means you're tagging in a team member that con that is constantly following up with these negative reviews or disgruntled patients, okay, great.

13:04
Then that's your system. That's what you're doing going forward. Then you don't have to think about it. If some patient calls in and complains, you're like, "We've got a game plan. We know

13:12
exactly what we're going to do. So and so, you're tagged in. You deal with this." Or we do nothing, right? And we just ignore all of them. You just have

13:20
to have a system that you can implement consistently. That's a great that's a great uh piece of advice because over time it's not a it's not an

13:29
if you're going to get these complaints or issues. It's a when.

13:33
Um and nowadays that when is happening far more frequently. Okay. So now another nauseating one. You mentioned the word restitution. Mhm.

13:41
Um, and I just want to throw up when I hear about these things and and I feel like I hear it a lot more from my general dental colleagues and my heart

13:48
goes out to you guys because I feel like you have the toughest job on the planet um, trying to be the the craftsman of so many

13:57
different procedures with so many different materials and now with assistance and patients are crazy. So, I mean, trying to make somebody happy,

14:08
it's it's very difficult. Um,

14:12
so I feel like I've heard this multiple times, but one example that you kind of mentioned that has stuck with me, um,

14:19
was a patient, I guess, that you said that the doctor did, uh, many implants and it was implant supported. I mean,

14:26
yeah, implant supported, uh, removable. Yeah.

14:29
And, um, dentures, so it wasn't removable. And uh I guess they placed the implants, they placed the dentures,

14:36
the patient came back for one posttop.

14:38
One posttop and then didn't come back anymore.

14:42
Y and then So anyway, let me let you finish telling the story since you're the one who's Yeah. Um so next thing they know, months

14:48
later, the doctor's getting a letter in the mail from this patient that is demanding his $10,000 back because he

14:58
decided to go a different path. He decided to go with a it was a chain denture clinic and they removed the mini

15:06
implants and placed full implants and did a full you know all on four type situation and so he wanted his money

15:13
back. What's interesting is there was nothing clinically wrong with the implants as far as our knowledge is

15:22
concerned based on post-operative X-rays and um all of that. Everything looks stable. So, we're not sure what we're

15:30
left to wonder what led him to choose a different path. What was he unhappy with? We don't know because he didn't come back outside of the one posttop.

15:39
And so now this this client is left with a well, what do I do? I mean, do I give that money back? Do I not give that money back? And so my advice to him,

15:51
especially because he ran. So, one of the things I appreciated about him is he wasn't just like, "Well, heck no, I'm not doing that." He actually thought

15:59
about it like, "Let me get advice from he's got a prostadonist that reviewed the X-rays, reviewed the placement of

16:06
the implants. Does this look clinically sound? Can you see anything here that would have gone faulty?" No. Pro prostadonist friend said no. Looks good.

16:15
He ran it by uh the uh person that he got certified to do many implants with.

16:21
So all the courses that he had had with this man, he sent the information to him. Do you see anything clinically wrong here that I did? Uh so I

16:29
appreciate that about him that he just took the time to make sure cuz he thought it was clinically sound, but he had the humility enough to go, let me

16:39
run it by people that know um potentially even better than I do. And they all said, looks great. So, a and we

16:47
talked we had a couple episodes on September and how I've got a ton of clients that are just dismally slow

16:54
right now. Dismally slow. So, it's like in all honesty, there's I don't like I I am nervous to give up that $10,000 right

17:02
now based on the way the last couple of months look. That makes me very concerned. And so, my advice to him was hold on to it. Just just wait. you know,

17:11
ultimately that gentleman is going to have to prove that something clinically was wrong in order to demand your money back or to be, you know, owed that. So,

17:20
I'm like, let's just sit and wait on it.

17:22
Especially because the 10,000 really would be hard to come by right now.

17:25
Let's just wait. And when I was telling you this, you had a different reaction.

17:29
So, I want to hear I want the listeners to hear your reaction, too.

17:32
Well, I just um I just I worry that um it it opens yourself up to a lot of

17:39
things. And so, um, for example, now if the patient is like, "Well, I'm going to," so either way, like the whole

17:47
thing, like every onion layer is really stinky in this one because let's assume the doctor does give the $10,000 back,

17:54
but we don't know what this patient's MO is. Like, did you really just want the money back cuz you went and got implants elsewhere or what happened?

18:02
Um, are you going to come back and say,

18:03
"Well, but for my pain and suffering, I actually want this. You gave me 10."

18:06
like is it ever going to end or is it going to be one that I'm going to complain to the state board now? Yeah.

18:11
Because you um um you know I don't want this to happen to any other patient or if you don't give the money back is that what their

18:19
recourse is going to be? So I'm going to call the state board. Um I'm going to leave negative reviews. I'm going to So it's just one of those things where you're like oh my god. So at this point

18:28
my question to you too is this where you reach out to your liability? I don't know. I I really don't know. Um,

18:36
and so the whole thing is just like,

18:38
well, because if he complains to part of me goes, is giving the money back the easy way here, right?

18:44
Um, and hopefully the patient just goes away. But those are the other two things that in the back of my mind go, patient may not go away. We don't know. Um, and

18:51
then if this does end up going to the state board, well, now the state board has to look at everything. So, can this client be sure that they've got every

19:00
vital, every consent form signed, every x-ray is diagnostic, there were no miss billings, the ledger is accurate. Like,

19:09
it just opens yourself up to all of this. And then I start going, you know what, the $10,000 might be cheaper than the lawyer fees of having to deal with

19:17
this. Although, you may have to deal with it all anyway if they complain. So,

19:22
I just was like, Bethany, I want to throw up for your client. like this is awful to be held by your balls like that and you don't know what to do. So even

19:29
you saying now like you just said just sit on it but what does that mean? Like is he replying to the patient? Is he ignoring the email? Is somebody from his office calling? Like now what?

19:41
So that's a great question too. My advice in this particular situation, and this goes back to a situation that came

19:50
up with one of my clients a couple years ago, and I reached out to a lawyer friend of mine that deals with this, and his advice was, don't respond. Like,

20:06
wait for it to see if it will subside on its own.

20:06
Meaning, he's saying, I want my $10,000 back. The dentist is like crickets.

20:11
And then see what this patient's going to do. Like whether they're going to say, "Did you get my email? I want my money back." Or see if they're going to go away or see if Okay. Exactly.

20:19
That makes me nervous. Which I'm glad a lawyer is saying this, but that makes me really nervous. Yeah. Um basically, I said, you know,

20:25
well, why why would we not respond and his advice was your response starts to dictate the course that you're going to

20:33
be walking down, right? So, let's say you open up this conversation with the patient. Oh, you know, why do you want the money back? He said there it could

20:41
be that they were sending that letter and just seeing like what's going to happen. He said you don't know the intention of the patient until you

20:50
respond. And so he said sometimes it the the hope is that they just sent that letter out as a wish and a prayer. Like

20:58
I wonder if they'll just send me my money back. He was like if that's their intention and we hope that it is your lack of response will kill it. It's

21:06
done. They hoped that they would get $10,000 back and they didn't get it. So,

21:11
oh well, I tried. So, he said, "If we don't respond and they're that way, it goes away and you never have to worry

21:18
about it." He said, "If we were to respond to that person that was a wish and a prayer, well, now they have hope

21:25
that their wish and a prayer is actually receiving attention and now they're going to dig their heels in and make it

21:32
an issue when it was just a wish and a prayer." So he said you your reaction actually sets the course for it being

21:40
something that they're going to pursue when you had a chance of it just being a wish and a prayer. And I thought that made a lot of sense.

21:46
You know that that does make a lot of sense and that's that's quite wise. I guess to me the only thing that I still go h but people are so volatile these

21:54
days and if they're like you ignored me I'm going to make you pay attention to me now. I'm coming back at you. So because I feel like yeah, four or five

22:02
years ago people were but now especially with um I don't know with so much social

22:10
media so I I think four or five years ago people weren't as hateful right and now the last couple years like hate is so out there and um being very vocal

22:20
with your hate has become acceptable and um I think especially now with where it is you know financial implications of

22:29
pandemic and the world and the inflation and recession and blah blah blah blah blah. Like I don't know. I I I would be curious to know if that lawyer still

22:37
like now in in today's climate like I mean it makes a lot of sense that that's I think in principle that makes a lot of sense.

22:44
Well, and here's the thing to think about. Let's say that he's doing that. He's just going to kind of, you know,

22:50
sit back and and watch and wait. the the cool thing about him is he immediately started taking action to try to figure

22:57
out amongst his his uh you know prostadonist friends am I clinically sound here he's done homework so that if

23:06
and when the patient reaches back out and say says did you so this was a physical letter that was sent by the way um if and when he reaches back out and

23:14
says did you not receive my letter I sent a letter the response can easily be actually I did receive your letter I've been doing a bunch of homework work on

23:22
my end uh and wanted to reach out to you after I had completed my homework. So,

23:27
thank you for reaching back out. I want to, you know, schedule a time to talk with you in person about the homework that I've been doing. Um, so because

23:35
that's the truth. Now, if we just ignored it and didn't do anything with it, then we can't really honestly say that, but he can. He honestly was doing

23:43
homework. So, we can always have a justified reason for the delay in response. Um, if he never responds,

23:48
okay, great. He faded off in the distance. If he does respond, we can let him know, "Yes, we've been hard at work evaluating your case, getting

23:55
specialists to look at your case to figure out what might have gone wrong that caused you."

24:01
But could that get him in trouble if the patient's like, "I didn't say you could show my case to somebody else." Like, what do you do?

24:05
No, because there's no name being shared. So, technically, he hasn't broken any type of HIPPA violation, right? But from the patient standpoint,

24:12
thinking, "Well, how dare you go and talk about my case to all these people?"

24:16
Maybe. I don't I don't think that that's necessarily maybe if they're crazy enough that's a response, but I don't I I would imagine if it's somebody that's

24:24
just trying to get money back and they know it's a long shot, the fact that that client pulled in specialists to

24:30
look at his case hopefully would shut it down.

24:34
I I guess to me, and again, not that not that I have any advice, but when I'm looking at this, I'm like, but the patient seems crazy to begin with.

24:40
Something's off. Because if you just didn't go back for any anything and you moved on, that is crazy. Who does that?

24:47
Who does that? Who gets like pays that kind of money, gets those many implants?

24:51
And unless something happened in that practice, like you feel like the doctor harassed you in some way or you feel like it's just such an odd um step to

25:01
just disappear and go back and get it redone. So, something's not right. Well,

25:06
there's a screw loose, pardon the pun here. Like, I just something's not right.

25:11
you know. So I to me that's where I think that's where my gross we need like yeah I'm here all day in this closet. Um

25:20
but you know what I mean like if we were talking about a rational person all this makes sense but the whole thing is so irrational that I started going does this put us in a different league right now?

25:28
So here's something to think about on that. Um so let's think about the two ways that this could go and we kind of alluded to this in our lawsuit. um one

25:36
it can go one of two ways like civil court type thing right where we're going not state board route but civil court

25:44
route. Um so again the one of the advice that my client received was they would have to prove in civil court that

25:53
clinically something broke down in order for for you to be on the hook for this 10 $10,000

26:01
state board route. That's the really fun route to think about because as you mentioned in the one of the previous episodes, if it goes stateboard route,

26:11
the the denture clinic group that took this patient on, removed implants,

26:17
placed implants, well, they're a part of this case. So one of the advices that uh my client received was in all honesty if

26:26
it goes stateboard route based on what we're seeing and how these implants look great you placed good implants it is

26:33
going to be the responsibility of that group to justify why they removed perfectly good implants advised a

26:41
patient to remove perfectly good implants and redo everything. So the um advice that he received was in all

26:49
honesty this looks so clinically strong that if it goes stateboard route you're going to be fine. If it goes civil court obviously that's more up in the air but

26:58
still they would have to prove so I'm going to argue with the you're going to be fine state board route because can you vouch for everything else in your record to be fine because

27:06
they might say there was no standard of care violation in implant placement but you didn't take vitals on this day and you didn't like so it's a can of worms.

27:14
Yeah. And and of course then if it's those smaller allegations, maybe you get a lighter slap on your wrist, maybe you

27:20
get lucky and you get dismissed, but I still think that is not a good place to be in because it's

27:28
you don't you don't know, you know, like civil litigation is it's I think is a little bit more clear-cut in this case, but to me altogether that this patient's a little

27:37
something's not right. Yeah. Um it just makes me nervous. Now, when we were talking about this the other day,

27:43
you said your dad, who has been a guest on this, and we all want him to be a more frequent guest on this, um, you said your dad would almost always pay it

27:52
back, and you two were at odds with that. So, can you tell us more about that? I wish he was here right now because I want to know from him,

27:58
would you give it back? And if so, based on everything we've talked about, would you still do that today?

28:03
Yeah. Uh, so dad for the longest time has been he's quick to give back. Um, it

28:12
drove me crazy, especially because again, when we talk about my history with the practice, I was brought in to find money, to save money, to help them,

28:20
you know, kind of survive. Yeah. So,

28:23
then when we get a patient that's demanding money back and my dad's just almost always like, "Yeah, okay." You know, give it back. It drove me crazy

28:31
because I'm like, "That's $1,800 that I fought for in collections and now I'm back to equal." I So, in my mind,

28:40
financially, the refund needed to make sense. Did we do something wrong? Um,

28:47
did we need did we truly owe that patient that refund if we're just doing it because they raised a stink? Well,

28:54
I'm going to raise a stink, too, cuz I fought really hard for that $1,800 that we're now giving back. Um, so I he and I

29:01
would definitely be at odds. Now, one of the things that I'll say about him is this did not happen very often in his

29:09
practice. And so, uh, and he he I think he alluded to this in one of the episodes that I had him on for,

29:16
as much as we try to do great dentistry,

29:19
um, there's going to be mistakes or things that come up and we didn't do a perfect job every time, we can't, right? So, there's cases that he feels like,

29:27
oh, I probably could have done this a little bit better. or I could have had better margins on this crown or whatever the case may be. But he said, "You know

29:34
what? I very seldom have patients that complain because they like me. They know that I care. There's a feeling that he

29:44
creates." And I've told this to a lot of my clients. He has just a masterful way of interacting with patients. He's that

29:51
uber sanguin and and can just bring warmth into a room. And patients just love him. when they love you and feel

29:59
like you care, like you're listening and you and you care, that minimizes the complaints. And so he it's very rare for him. So when it does pop up, he tends to be more like give it back. No big deal.

30:19
Because first of all, it's rare. It's not happening very often. And his mindset is if they're unhappy and they think that they're owed that money back,

30:19
well, who am I to stand in the way of them getting their money back? Um I see it very differently, but he's always been that way. So he is quick to give money back if and when that pops up.

30:30
So then you go back to then luck and personality because then I start going okay well is this client of yours not a likable person? You know and I'm sure they are. You know what I mean? But so sweet.

30:39
But then you start going um you know like this one that had the negative review for her demeanor.

30:45
Well, she did look like a minority of some sort. I'm not sure what her background was, but she,

30:52
you know, she did, she was did not present with uber confidence and uber whatever. She was fine. There's nothing wrong with her.

30:58
Um, but I was like, I can bet you anything you have the whiff of new grad trying to please and this mom is

31:06
sniffing that out. It's going to pick up pick on you. Um, and so I do go back and say there are just some there's some colleagues of mine that I'm like, dude,

31:15
you get away with everything because there's just something like one in particular. There's just something just a shook about you. You just look like,

31:22
oh, you're such a nice guy. Your soft demeanor, you've got this sweet smile.

31:27
And so people just want to take care of you. You're the dentist who's supposed to take care everybody else, but everybody takes care of you because you just have that aura about you. Um, and

31:36
so, you know, I guess how do you Yeah. How do you fabricate that when it's not natural for you? And I think

31:44
that's the question of the day. It doesn't mean that it eliminates a disgruntled patient, but if we can minimize that because we made them feel

31:53
a certain way in the practice, um, then if that means we remove some of that risk, it's well worth harnessing or

32:01
tapping into a part of us that's not natural. So maybe we're not the, you know, awesome little sparkly person that walks in and just brightens the room,

32:10
but how can we tap into that to make this patient feel like they're our one and only attention? So, a couple of

32:18
things that that you and I have talked about just good listening. Are we asking open-ended questions that show the the

32:26
parent or the patient, I want to listen to you? Is our body language showing that? So I feel like body language is 90% of this. If when we're asking a

32:35
question, if we've physically distanced oursel from the patient, we're as far back from them as we can. We're sitting back with legs ar legs and arms crossed

32:45
and we don't look like we're engaged or worse, and I see this all the time,

32:49
they're answering our questions and we're back behind them at the computer,

32:53
back to them, not even eye contact. I I honestly can't talk to people without eye contact. I find myself moving around

33:01
the person to get in their line of sight because I feel like we're not going to get each other if there's no eye contact. But in the dental field, we do

33:08
this all the time. We step behind the patient and ask questions and document on the computer and they're talking to the wall in front of them. And so

33:17
creating that feeling of, no, I'm asking all these questions. I'm smart enough to remember your answers for the two minutes that I'm spending sitting here to then go back behind you and document.

33:28
or better yet, I've got an employee in here in the room with me that is documenting on my behalf for that. But I

33:35
look like I'm interested. I'm near enough to you that it shows I'm interested. I've established eye contact with you. I've got open body language.

33:44
Uh and I'm asking open-ended questions,

33:46
not just very black and white yes or no questions. I feel like I'm trying to get to know you. That can go a long way even if you're a super introverted

33:54
personality. And that's hard, right? Cuz the introverted personalities,

33:58
especially our uber flaggmatics who have very low facial expressions and we're like, do they have any emotions? The

34:07
flaggmatic's going to have to harness some facial expressions to, you know,

34:11
raise the eyebrows when the patient says something interesting to smile when they say something funny. And that may even take, as silly as it sounds, that may even take practice in a mirror to know,

34:21
oh, this is what a smile looks like. This is what raised eyebrows look like.

34:26
But that is valuable time spent if it means the patient feels in that moment like you were present and you cared.

34:33
Yeah. And that's what I wonder too with this with this doc of yours. Um somewhere some trust has been lost. And

34:41
so that would be my question. It's you've done some excellent technical execution of the case but for some

34:48
reason the patient didn't think so. Like for the patient to put themselves through this again.

34:53
Yeah. something is off whether it's with the patient or with the communication how they were made to feel like it's just um

35:00
it to me every disgruntled patient is a good opportunity to go back and re-evaluate our systems our communication how did this happen often

35:09
times we're so prideful that we're like that's just a dumb patient you know just miss just miss that I feel like we miss

35:17
an opportunity to learn in that scenario as much as we would love to have 100%

35:21
positive feed feedback That's not practical. That's not realistic. So,

35:26
man, even if we've got 2% negative feedback, that's 2% that we can learn from if we're willing to pause and to

35:33
listen or to look at the negative review and go, "Wow, how did we get here? Let's go back and re-evaluate this whole situation. Where where would they have

35:41
come up with this? And could we do anything differently?" Same thing with this discernal patient um asking for the money back. Where did we get off with

35:49
this? What could we have done differently if anything? But let's at least take the time to re-evaluate because it looks like the doctor is doing a great job of re-evaluating the technical aspect.

36:00
But to me, now that we've been talking about this, I start go I mean, unless all the implants fell out and now the patient's like I don't have trust in them. But it doesn't sound like they

36:08
should fall out because it sounds like all the experts have looked at it. So then I start going something else caused this patient to lose trust. Now was it I see this a lot too and it's it's

36:17
infuriating and nauseating that sometimes an assistant will say something M and the patient takes grasps

36:24
onto that and turns it into whatever they turn it into. So, did somebody over the phone say something unintentionally,

36:31
not not on purpose, but did somebody say something that now has casted this doubt in this patient's mind? Yeah.

36:37
That now they sought another dentist and undid everything you just did. Like they didn't it wasn't just a filling. This is like a pretty big procedure. They were

36:44
on board for a reason and suddenly they're offboard and something's happened. So, I'm I'm hoping this doc has gone, okay, clinically, technically,

36:52
we were fine, but I hope they continue to do their research and what could how did we lose the trust of this patient?

36:58
Yeah, I think that's a really good takeaway on this and any any complaint honestly is take the time to evaluate to

37:07
critically evaluate where something could have gone wrong and are there changes that we can practically implement because of this disgruntled

37:15
patient. And I think that's a huge takeaway.

37:18
Awesome. Hey, thanks for bringing up a bile inducing conversation. I was going to say we should have inserted somewhere. Grab your barf bag. Like,

37:26
sorry if any of you guys have made a mess on yourselves now. It's such a nauseating topic. Hey, hang in there, though. I mean,

37:33
again, even this example shows we're we're not alone in this. We do have colleagues that are experiencing a higher number of disgruntled patients.

37:42
So, I think it's an important subject matter for now. Thanks for joining the conversation today. We hope that you are comforted in knowing that you are not

37:51
alone, but we also hope that you're walking away with some really great tips and tricks to try in your practice.

37:58
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38:07
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38:17
As always, please know that we are rooting for you today as you manage your dental drama.